Posted by Ed Mulroy on 06/08/06 19:33

> ... tables are still the wrong choice for your purposes ...

I still do not understand why that is.

> ... But you will gain support for 'text-only, cell phone, PDA or
> blind-viewer browsers' ...

I thought that supporting them was pointless. Pages such as these have
little value when viewed with text browsers, blind viewer browsers and tiny
PDA or cell phone displays.
http://home.nc.rr.com/emulroy/flrplan.htm
http://home.nc.rr.com/emulroy/restmap.htm
http://home.nc.rr.com/emulroy/localdir.htm

> ...One method is to make the sidebar 'float: left' ...

> and give the content area a margin-left which is equal
> or larger than the width of the sidebar...

Unfortunately the float:left scheme does not properly present. When someone
narrows the window, one column drops to below the other instead of a
horizontal scroll bar appearing. I have not found anything in CSS which
when the screen is narrowed will put in a horizontal scroll bar instead of
hiding half of the page below the bottom of the screen.

> ... with a certain width preferably in em ..

I think the pages you looked at dimension in percent but on the other pages
the sidebars are dimensioned in ex. You and everyone else these days seem
to speak of em and not of ex. Please tell me if I am wrong to use ex
instead of em.

> ... the use of CLASS attributes can be heavily reduced by a
> more clever use ofCSS selectors.

Thank you. I had the intention of doing that that. There are about 93
files on the site and each would need to be edited. I have been
procrastinating.

I am an engineer, literally someone with a pocket protector and, at least in
the past, a slide rule. While I may be a bit creative with respect to
things like bandwidth, response time and fringing capacitance I have little
if any creativity of the sort needed to be a graphic designer. My web site
is admittedly uninspired. I welcome any comments and greatly appreciate
your suggestions.

.. Ed

> Benjamin Niemann wrote in message
> news:e69ne0$ais$1@online.de...
>
> ...
> Those users don't know how to disable JavaScript either...
> JavaScript is the only (valid) way to open links in a new window.
> But I agree with Jonathan that this should be left to the user. Most
> users at least understand the back button.
>
>>> Think about this, why are your links in a table at all? They are
>>> just a list right?
>>
>> No, they are a table
>
> I cannot spot any tabular data in your document...
>
>> , a two dimensional array of items presented in an
>> orderly, predetermined fashion for view in computer screens with
>> resolution of 800x600 or more and deliberately without support for
>> text-only, cell phone, PDA or blind-viewer browsers.
>
> What you are talking about is a grid-layout. The default layout algorithm
> for TABLE elements happens to be a grid, but tables are still the wrong
> choice for your purposes.
>
> You won't loose the 'orderly, predetermined fashion' when you make good
> use
> of CSS. But you will gain support for 'text-only, cell phone, PDA or
> blind-viewer browsers'. Takes some time, but once you have mastered the
> new
> (and at the same time old) way to develop websites, it will be much easier
> to create documents that work in any number of (even unknown) user-agents
> than it was to create documents that work in IE4 and NS4 some years ago.
>
>> Each attempt to do an equivalent presentation with CSS has failed in some
>> browsers, usually placing one of the two tables at the bottom instead of
>> presenting them side by side.
>
> There are various well tested recipes for multicolumn layouts using CSS.
> Your document is pretty simple, this should not be a problem.
>
>>> Google for some CSS layout tutorials.
>>
>> Perhaps that would find some of these links?
>> http://home.nc.rr.com/emulroy/html2.htm#stylesheets
>> http://home.nc.rr.com/emulroy/magother.htm#blogsoft
>> (note that the above links are also part of my site)
>
> Seems as if you already got all the informations you need. It does indeed
> take some time to digest all this, but looking at your source suggests
> that
> still have a lot to learn.
>
>>> However all attempts to remove the 'align' and handle it with CSS
>>> results in the right hand table being moved down the page to past the
>>> bottom of the left hand menu column.
>
> One method is to make the sidebar 'float: left' with a certain width
> preferably in em and give the content area a margin-left which is equal or
> larger than the width of the sidebar.
>
> And the sidebar is not a table either but can be marked up as a list. And
> the use of CLASS attributes can be heavily reduced by a more clever use of
> CSS selectors.

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