Posted by dawnerd on 08/06/06 17:49

Richard Levasseur wrote:
> Armando Padilla wrote:
> > Sharon O. wrote:
> > > Sorry, this is a little off topic. The on-topic groups seemed to be mostly
> > > spam bots chattering between themselves and I think people here are likely
> > > to be able to answer my questions.
> > >
> > > If I search on Monster.com for IT jobs I see a lot of demand for
> > > experience/knowledge of PHP as well as SQL, XHTML, C#, etc.
> > >
>
> Database stuff is always around, it seems. They're the workshorse of
> any organization. The webfront has started to become much more
> important, though, since its an access anywhere, anytime, immediately
> service. Down side is web devs are expected to have something NOW all
> the time.
>
> > > If I do any sort of CS or SE degree I'm likely to only briefly skim over
> > > these languages if I'm lucky and learn about things such as RAD, UML,
> > > lifecycles, etc. instead. I've very rarely seen these "skills" come up in
> > > job adverts.
> > >
>
> I've only seend UML mentioned once. It can be handy, but by and large,
> i've never written strict UML; it has always been a bit more specific
> to whatever language its going to be written in.
>
> I've seen 'lifecycle' mentioned once - but that should really be
> implied for any development job, i don't see a need to mention it
> explicitly.
>
> > > So, if someone wants an IT job where does one learn the skills mentioned
> > > in job adverts? In your own time? Then why go to university and do a CS/SE
> > > degree?
> > >
> > > People who do some kind of programming job: did you find a CS/SE degree
> > > helpful in getting a job? And did you find you learned skills that helped
> > > you with your current job?
> > >
> > > TIA
> >
> >
> > I cant speak for everyone but here are my thoughts on this.
> >
> > Im currently wrapping up a CS degree and yes they dont cover much of PHP
> > and AJax and most internet languages but CS is mostly taught so you can
> > pick up the fundamentals of software development (Software
> > Architectures, Algorithms, etc etc) since thats universal throughout all
> > languages, from C++ to Ruby On Rails.
> >
> > if you want a job NOW. then i suggest you start cranking away at
> > reading material such as books, web sites, and most importantly writing
> > some of your own apps, even if they are some that people have already
> > made. You can take classes that are specific to a language, such as PHP
> > or JSP training but i always found them to be pointless and useless.
> > Reading books is recommended.
> >
>
> Hands on experience is always going to be more rewarding and look
> better on a resume. You learn more and can apply what you've learned -
> then when they ask "Have/Can you done/do this?" you can say Yes. Also
> shows you have initiative and creativity.
>
> Learn a language inside and out, but learn other languages enough so
> that you can easily jump into an existing code base.
>
> > Your last question. Did i find my CS degree beneficial in the job
> > market? I use close to 12% of the CS stuff I learned. This is not
> > because most of the items that i do at work dont use CS related "stuff"
> > but its mostly because I dont need most of the subjects/material picked
> > up through my education. Also Im mostly going through the CS path
> > becuase I plan to do other things with my time (when i get home) other
> > than web related items, mostly machine learning.
> >
>
> It is a very handy 12% at times, though. I've solved some problems
> using my edumakashun that would've taken me much longer otherwise.
> Most important are learning inside and out common design patterns and
> knowing when to use them. This is also where books about specific
> languages can come in handy since they usually have an example project
> they're developing to illustrate their points.
>
> Additionally, simply having a college degree will open many more doors
> for you. Many jobs won't even consider you unless you have a degree.
> A degree is (generally speaking) a good indicator if the person is
> capable or not.

The problem with IT jobs, at least that I have seen, is that employers
don't know much about what they are hiring you for, but know what certs
are and in turn only hire people who go out and get certified, even if
someone who isn't certified can do a better job.

I don't think it's really even needed to go to college to get into
programming. If you know what your doing, well isn't that enough? To
some it is, but again, employers often rely only on a certificate that
you know what you are doing.

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