Posted by Jerry Stuckle on 08/09/06 12:06

Tony Marston wrote:
> "Jerry Stuckle" <jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:GMSdnZdwXMU9u0TZnZ2dnUVZ_rWdnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
>>Tony Marston wrote:
>>
>>>"Jerry Stuckle" <jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote in message
>>>news:eJSdnbgtMaxMEkrZnZ2dnUVZ_qednZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Tony Marston wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I have said several times that the ability to create different functions
>>>>>and variables with the *same spelling* but *different case* leads to
>>>>>obfuscated and unmaintainable code, and should therefore be avoided. I
>>>>>am not the only one with this opinion - check out item 21 on
>>>>>http://mindprod.com/jgloss/unmainnaming.html
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Yes, you have espoused this BS multiple times. Now you quote some
>>>>unknown programmer with no documented credentials to back up your claim.
>>>>How long did you have to search the internet to find this "essay"? Or is
>>>>it your own under an assumed name?
>>>
>>>
>>>I see. So anybody who expresses an opinion which is different to yours is
>>>automatically a nobody? Wha an arrogant prick you are.
>>>
>>
>>You quote someone who no one ever heard of who posted an essay on the
>>internet. And you claim this proves the majority of programmers agree
>>with you.
>
>
> Paragraph 21 of the article "How to write unmaintainable code" at
> http://mindprod.com/jgloss/unmainnaming.html agrees with my point of view.
> If you did a google search on that title you will see it referenced hundreds
> of times, which means that many other people share the same view.
>

No, it does not mean other people share the same view. It means it has
been referenced hundreds of times. Period.


>
>>Talk about arrogant prick. You define the term.
>>
>>And yes, there are plenty of people whose opinions differ from mine and I
>>still respect them. You are not one of them.
>>
>>
>>>>I would rather go by recognized experts - like K & R, the Bjorn
>>>>Stroustrop, the initial designers of Java at Sun, the developers of PHP,
>>>>the folks who developed the XML spec, and even the majority of the people
>>>>who have responded on this thread. They have done a lot more for
>>>>programming than your unknown essayist - or you, for that matter.
>>>>
>>>>And they all agree that case sensitivity is a good thing.
>
>
> OK, wise guy. Show me any published resources which explicitly state that
> the ability to create different functions with the *same spelling* but
> *different case* is a good thing. Go on, I dare you.
>

STOOPID TONY is the only one who has ever espoused that. No one else
has. The rest of us use case intelligently.

> If the whole argument falls down to "how many published articles support
> your view" then I win.
>

Yea, right. You can count to one. You win.

Loser.

>
>
>>>But where do they say that the ability to use a word with the same
>>>spelling but different case to produce a different word is a good thing?
>>>Being able to use mixed case is one thing, but saying that the same word
>>>in upper and lower case is actually a *different* word is something else
>>>completely.
>>>
>>
>>You need to read more. For instance, the Sun java developers recommend
>>conventions such as "Customer" for a class name and "customer" for a
>>variable name.
>
>
> But they are not different functions with the *same spelling* but *different
> case*

No, and no one here (except stoopid Tony) has ever advocated doing it.

>
> Besides, Those are purely recommendations among programmers, not rules
> enforced by the language. And nowhere does it say that the ability to create
> different functions with the *same spelling* but *different case* is a good
> thing.
>

No, they are programming standards developed over two decades and used
by millions of programmers all over the world.

>
>
>>IOW, they endorse standards which have now been around for a couple of
>>decades.
>
>
> They are *conventions* in those languages, not *standards* for all
> languages.
>

The fact millions of programmers around the world use and agree on them
makes them de facto standards.

> <snip>
>
>>>I have told you several times. When most people read a word it has the
>>>same meaning regardless of case. To suddenly say that by simply changing
>>>the case of one letter you prodce a totally different word is confusing.
>>>Maintaining someone else's program where the same word is used in
>>>multiple places, but because of small differences in case it actually
>>>becomes a different word would be a nightmare to most people.
>>>
>>
>>Fine. Go teach English. This is programming. And case matters in case
>>sensitive languages.
>>
>>And you cannot claim it would be a "nightmare to most people". Only to
>>Tony. As a matter of fact, I have worked with literally hundreds of
>>programmers over the years, using case sensitive languages. NONE of them
>>felt it was a "nightmare".
>
>
> How many of those were exposed to different functions which had the *same
> spelling* but *different case* ?
>

Only in stoopid Tony's world.

>
> <snip>
>
>>In your opinion only - and some unknown your found on the internet. The
>>vast majority of people who have posted in this thread disagree with you.
>
>
> I disagree. It is only you and Shelly who seem to think that creating
> different functions with the *same spelling* but *different case* is a good
> idea.
>

And you're too stoopid to go back and read what other people have said.
>
>
>>Ok, in the doc then, what is foo?
>>
>
>
> It depends how it is addressed - the constant foo, the variable foo, the
> function foo. Nobody just uses 'foo' and expects you to determine its type
> from its name, or the case that it was writen in.
>

With standards you can tell immediately just by the name. Anyone with
half a brain (which leaves you out) can read it and know.

> <snip>
>
>>>PHP does not use case to tell the difference between a function and a
>>>variable. Nor do most other languages. Therefore the *convention* of
>>>using case in such a manner is merely the practice of one small group.
>>>
>>
>>No, but programming standards do use it. And it is not the practice of
>>"one small group". It is the practice used on every programming project
>>in which I've been associated - either as a programmer or a project
>>manager.
>
>
> Where a language has o rules on case, where it can deal with upper case,
> lower case and mixed case, I ind that standards which dictate a particular
> use of case are counter productive.
>
Only in Tony's world. Thankfully that's a very small world.
Unfortunately, you have access to the internet so we have to put up with
your bullshit.

>
>
>>>>>But it is not obligatory. With PHP (and most other languages) I can use
>>>>>whatever case I like and the language will not complain for the smple
>>>>>reason that it does not care. There are no *language rules* about how to
>>>>>use case, only *programer conventions*.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>No, there are not language rules. They are programming conventions
>>>>(standards) developed to take advantage of the rules.
>>>
>>>
>>>I disagree.They are *conventions* used by one group of programmers in one
>>>language which are now being forced upon other groups of programmers in
>>>other languages. Different groups have different conventions, different
>>>languages have different conventions.
>>>
>>
>>That "one group of programmers" consists of millions of programmers all
>>over the world. Pretty big group.
>
>
> It still does not get away from the issue that some conventions do not apply
> to *all programmers* in *all languages*. I do not see why I should have to
> accept a convention from a different language that addresses a problem that
> does not exist in the language that I use.
>

Because millions of programmers agree it's a good thing. Only stoopid
Tony thinks it isn't.

No, you don't have to accept the standard. You can write your own
crappy code any way you want.

>
>>>>And standards are a good thing.
>>>
>>>
>>>Some standards are, some standards are not.
>>>
>>
>>Yea, any standard you don't agree with is a bad standard. Now who's being
>>an arrogant prick?
>
>
> I only accept standards which have a positive benefit, and I do not see any
> positive benefits from being able to create different functions which have
> the *same spelling* but *different case*. That produces obfuscated and
> unmaintainable code, therefore it is a bad thing.
>

Only standards YOU think have a positive benefit. And we see how stoopid
you are, so it really doesn't make any difference.

I find it interesting - this thread has moved from "all case" in which
you couldn't come up with a valid argument, to "the same function name
but using different case".

Only stoopid Tony has advocated that. No one else.

Go back to your beloved COBOL, Tony. You're too stoopid to understand a
language like PHP.

Troll.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

[Back to original message]