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Posted by Spartanicus on 10/26/06 07:31
Gérard Talbot <newsblahgroup@gtalbot.org> wrote:
>> I suspect that you are offended when you encounter a message that asks
>> you to use IE instead of the browser you normally use on the web.
>
>No I'm not. I just think these people don't know much about browsers.
Again: the people who advocate any other browser than you are using
think the same about you. You think that they are wrong, they think you
are wrong, actually you are both equally wrong.
It is rude and offensive to ask users who don't use IE to change their
browser to IE, it is no less rude and offensive to ask IE users to
change to something else. There are arguments supporting both requests,
neither set of arguments can claim to be more true than the other. Which
set of arguments matters to a user is 100% dependent on personal
circumstances.
You cannot claim the moral high ground by saying that everyone needs a
secure browser, no browser is secure. The vast majority of IE users have
never suffered any security problems that can be attributed to their
choice of browser. Your claims about IE's security problems amount to
scaremongering, you make this claim under the false pretence that you
have the user's best interest at heart, in reality you are pushing a
private agenda. You are afraid that if you were to reveal the real
reason why you are pestering IE users they'd not take any notice, so
you've resorted to trying to scare them.
>You'd
>> feel that they are trying to push their preference onto you, yet you are
>> doing the exact same thing to others.
>
>No I don't. Go and visit my own website.
If the code and content you posted is somewhere on your website then
that's all I need to know, the context in which it is displayed is of no
relevance.
>You'll even find at least 20 links to download IE 6. It's been like that
>for years too.
I ask visitors to my library to change their clothes if I don't like the
colour, but I also point them to places where they can get clothes in
that colour, so that demonstrates that I am not pushing my preference
onto them.
>> What is the "best" browser to use is highly debatable depending on your
>> point of view, it is only a matter of opinion.
>
>I did not create the US-CERT advisory in June 2004. I have not created
>the secunia.com website.
>CSS 1 and CSS 2.1 support and compliance can be tested, measured and
>quantified: E. Meyer and Ian Hickson have done so and others have too.
>There is a wide consensus among experts that IE 6 and IE 7 have poor web
>standards support, compliance: no one seriously claims otherwise, even
>Chris Wilson and David Massy.
>HTML 4.01 support and compliance can be tested, measured and quantified:
>R. Lionheart has done that.
>Number of flaws, vulnerabilities (with demo, proof-of-concept code),
>objective severity, gravity, time to patch, etc.. all of this can be
>measured, assessed, quantified.
More personal opinions about what users should care about, the fact that
some others have a similar view doesn't change the fact that even if all
these claims are true, they could well be totally irrelevant to someone
else's choice of browser. You fail to grasp the fundamental point: it's
none of your bleeping business telling others what they should care for
in a browser.
>> Including "please" when asking someone who walks into a store to
>> consider changing the colour of their clothes doesn't make the message
>> any less offensive.
>
>If I was to promote Opera 9.1 or Firefox 2, I wouldn't be selling
>anything. I don't work for them; I am not a share holder of Opera
>either.
See the previous library example.
>And a simple message promoting either or both product at the
>bottom of a webpage wouldn't be invasive or anything like "agressively
>pushing". You over-exaggerate here again: what's so offensive with a
>browsehappy button or a "download Opera 9" image??
The fact that you think that it is your right to pester others about
having made a choice you don't like. You do this using deplorable
tactics and delivery methods.
>> The issue is your choice of browser, how that is your choice to make,
>> and how you should not question the choice made by others,
>
>I don't question the choice of Safari users. I don't question the choice
>of Icab users. I don't question the choice of Dillo users. etc. etc. I
>don't question the choice of any users using any browser actually.
I don't dislike brown, purple, yellow, I only ask you to change your
clothes when they are red.
>Basically I would like to say to IE 6 users this: there are better
>browsers than IE 6 available out there and there are better browsers
>than IE 7.
What you want is to dictate to others what they should care for in a
browser. You "better" qualification is a personal one. To do so is
offensive and unacceptable in a free society.
>Why you would feel offended by someone promoting another browser than IE
>6 is beyond my comprehension.
Your comprehension needs enlarging.
>All browser manufacturers have promotion banners and promotion buttons.
>Even non-browser softwares. Are they all nuts, way out of line???
All clothes manufacturers promote their chosen colour of clothes, that's
fine. This doesn't give the librarian the right to bother people coming
into his library who wear a colour he doesn't like.
--
Spartanicus
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