Posted by Double Echo on 12/16/06 14:54

Jerry Stuckle wrote:
> Tim Streater wrote:
>> In article <NtqdneCPLbONNB_YnZ2dnUVZ_smonZ2d@comcast.com>,
>> Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Tim Streater wrote:
>>
>>
>> [...]
>>
>>
>>>> It's just the vogue at the moment. Those of us who have developed a
>>>> coding style over 40 years to assist maintainers who might be
>>>> following, think different. Cool is not important - maintainability
>>>> is (and donkeymentation, of course).
>>>>
>>>
>>> In your opinion, at least. Many others, including us who have been
>>> programming 39 years (started with Fortran II on an IBM 1401) think
>>> differently.
>>>
>>> Some old-time programmers get so ingrained in one method it's hard
>>> for them to see a different way of doing things might be better.
>>> Others find new ways to be much better - including easier to maintain.
>>
>>
>> I think it's just a vogue. Like when Pascal was the vogue and it was
>> considered "good" to have only one exit from a procedure. As
>> excruciating contortions were needed in real-world code to achieve
>> this, I carried right on using the return statement and ignored the
>> vogue.
>>
>
> As I say - in your opinion. Millions of programmers disagree with you.
>
>>
>>>> Personally I dislike something like:
>>>>
>>>> if (send_packet(params)) {
>>>> do something
>>>> }
>>>>
>>>> not just because of the braces but also because an "if" is supposed
>>>> to perform a test - not have as a side effect as it might be sending
>>>> a packet over the wire.
>>>
>>> I love it, and use it all the time. First started doing in in C over
>>> 20 years ago. It's one of the great features of languages like C,
>>> C++, Java and PHP, and allows for a lot of flexibility.
>>>
>>> In your case the if statement is doing a test - but it's just a test
>>> to see if an action (a dynamic event) completed successfully, instead
>>> of the static value of a variable.
>>>
>>> Let's take it one step further:
>>>
>>> result = send_packet(params);
>>> while (result) {
>>> do something
>>> result = send_packet(params);
>>> }
>>>
>>> Or, just
>>>
>>> while (send_packet(params)) {
>>> do something
>>> }
>>>
>>> After all, all a while loop is is a test which is executed repeatedly
>>> until the condition fails.
>>
>>
>> If you're doing a test, do a test. If you're sending a packet, send a
>> packet. These are distinct actions that should be separated.
>>
>> That's my style, at any rate.
>>
>> -- tim
>
> Why? When it makes the code more complicated and harder to understand?
>
> It is a test - a test as to whether the action completed successfully or
> not. But this concept is harder for some old-time programmers to grasp.
>
> Just like in my classes - COBOL and FORTRAN programmers had a lot harder
> time grasping the concept of pointers as implemented in C than new
> programmers did.
>
> And typically the longer someone had been doing structured programming,
> the more trouble he/she had in grasping OO concepts.
>
> It's sometimes hard for old-time programmers to change their habits.
>

I don't know about age being a true component of the argument, it's more
about brain function, some people need object orientated stuff, some don't,
and sometimes it's better to have just the objects you need and the rest
of the app is simply functions. Whatever the need is, not necessarily all
or nothing, this way or that. Sometimes the best of both is really what's
needed. But to suggest that OO is more difficult for old programmers who
do structured programming is a false argument. Most programmers that are
any good have a profit motive and are extremely lazy, so they're going to
do the most efficient thing possible. If I can accomplish an app without
OO you can darn well bet I'll do it without OO unless it's avoidable. It's
like a shotgun for killing mosquitos. On the other hand if I'm part of a
large team and we need the app to have as much components as possible to
build on for the future, OO might be right, but you can still do large
projects without OO. It's a nice feature of PHP to be able to do it
either way. And keep in mind, unless you compile the objects they still
have to be interpreted, and in an interpreted language, speed is everything.
Your OO may actually be too complex and slow the app down, something to
watch for.

Happy Holidays!

:-)

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