Posted by Rick Emery on 06/29/05 17:56

Quoting Andrew Scott <andrews@cmstransport.com.au>:

> I have been a coldfusion developer for now 10 years almost, and can code
> anything you want in a very short time. Have been learning PHP for now 6
> months and I am sorry to say that I don't like PHP over coldfusion.

Im always glad to get input from the ColdFusion side.

> Now the problem is that with any language that you choose to develop in, it
> all boils down to maintenance costs. Sure PHP might be free, but lets look
> at the realistic world of development.

Well, okay, but I think PHP is being used in the "realistic world of
development". Still, I want to be objective...

> Coldfusion allows very RAD and is very code reuse friendly and is not dead
> in the water, and keeps getting stronger and stronger. With coldfusion you
> have the ability to leverage of java more than you care to think, and even a
> simple command like
>
> String = WhatThe.Size();
>
> Will work, and the method size is not a part of coldfusion but a part of
> java, and makes the code just as easy to use than ever before. With the
> ability of tags we have created a framework in coldfusion that allows us to
> create a master / detail page in around 2 minutes, we can't do this in php
> without spending a minimum of 4 hours to do the same job.

Okay, but a framework can be built with PHP as well. You seem to brag
on ColdFusion because it leverages Java; why would I not also consider
J2EE then, developing directly in Java and removing the abstraction
layer of ColdFusion?

You also mention ColdFusion tags...this is one of my biggest peeves. I
have a programming background, and the tags in ColdFusion make me feel
like I'm writing HTML, not code (this is just a personal opinion, so
please, nobody get huffy). That's why PHP feels more comfortable to me,
but that's just a personal preference.

You mention that you can do a job in two minutes with ColdFusion that
would take four hours in PHP. I have two issues with this statement:

1. By your own admission, you're using a framework you've created to do
the ColdFusion job, while I have to assume that the PHP job is from
scratch. If you wrote and used a similar framework for PHP, would that
job not also take much less time?

2. I wrote a "proof-of-concept" application in PHP. For comparison, I
re-wrote the same application in ColdFusion. It took me much longer to
provide the same functionality with ColdFusion than it did with PHP.
But I can be objective; the fact is that I'm much more familiar with
PHP than ColdFusion, which directly contributed to the time it took to
do each app.

> Now the thing is no matter were you go you will get that this is better than
> that, and in this case I do like php, but I enjoy and can get things done
> quicker in coldfusion. I am only here because I have to maintain some php
> code.

What I'm looking for is *why* people think "this is better than that".
I think I've already handled the "getting things done quicker" portion
from my point of view, but am glad to have your input.

> But lets look at the bigger picture for a minute, php might be free but look
> at the amount of time it would take to develop and application, then look at
> coldfusion and it might cost but its quicker to develop with the right
> person and could end up saving you time and money in the future.

"...with the right person" being the operative phrase :-) And my
feeling is that faster isn't always better. We've done some very
complex applications using Visual Basic, making it do things Microsoft
never intended in the name of RAD. We've been bitten by that and have
learned that developing faster isn't always better. *Personally*, I
don't care for environments that do things for me "under the covers";
but I'm a control freak and that's my C/C++ background coming through.
I love the fact that people have written PHP libraries, but that I can
view and modify the source code if I want. But I'm objective enough to
realize that this is only my opinion and may not be best for our
organization.

> Now I have read that people have talked about server loads, if the
> coldfusion application is installed correctly in the first place then it
> would not be an issue that's why there is an enterprise version.

We downloaded a demo version of ColdFusion and three of us tried to
install it. Only one was successful. Obviously two of us failed because
we aren't familiar with it and did something wrong; but I was able to
successfully install PHP on three different servers (two Windows, one
Linux). To run ColdFusion, I would have to learn to install and
configure it correctly; this would have to be factored into my time to
develop with it.

> We develop intranet applications that deliver sales invoicing, and financial
> report writing with pdf invoices / picking slips and this is now included in
> coldfusion although we use it with CR9/10, but to have this feature in a php
> application its too much of a headache to program (time wise).
>
> Most powers to be will be looking at the overall cost, development cost and
> maintenance cost and this can be very expensive, if you don't do your
> homework first, and with blue dragon you don't need to spend a cent to
> develop in coldfusion.

I was told by management to disregard cost in my (our) analysis. I'm
sure it will come into play at some point, but I've been evaluating
based on features, as if they would cost the same. In this way, I think
I'm being a little more objective (because my first inclination was to
say "PHP is free (as in beer *and* speech), and ColdFusion is not".
I've tried to remove that from the equation, even though it's an
important point to me.

I really do appreciate your input, and intend to use your comments when
I discuss this with management. I don't agree with all of your points,
but will present all of the information and let management decide.
That's what they get paid for :-)

Thanks again,
Rick
--
Rick Emery

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
-- Leonardo Da Vinci

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