Posted by kenoli on 03/04/07 00:48

On Mar 3, 9:49 am, "Steve" <no....@example.com> wrote:

> so you've dropped the realestate application you've been working on for the
> past year or so?

I don't know what you ar referring to. I have never worked on a real
estate applicaion.

>
> | We work hand to
> | mouth and one of the reasons I am doing this is that we can't afford
> | to hire anyone else to do it.
>
> but a business plan together and get a financier. almost any non-profit
> starts this way. there are plenty of philanthropic people around...the rest
> whom give money do it for the tax breaks or good pr.

We're working on it. We have a description of what we are doing and
are approaching foundations. We have a small grant for one project
and are seeking funding for others.

> besides, you treat this ng like we *are* your hired help. do you not have
> enough money to buy a beginners book on php? i do get rude with you from
> time to time, but i'm being sincere here. if you were to express in english
> what you wanted out of a function or other code, you could more easily look
> for functions in the manual or book that would accomplish your goals.

I'm sorry to be an annoyance. I have bought a number of books and do
use them. I also find a lot of assistance on the internet. When I
get stuck I have come to this list and have gotten some great help.
What I have experienced is that there is a threshold of understanding
that I need to get past in order to even really understand how to find
the information I need. For this reason, I'm sure many of my
questions are not as focused as they could be. I will continue to do
my best to solve problems on my own and to articulate questions well
when I do post them.

> if you just keep mindlessly asking us 'how can i do this?', you will learn
> nothing and we can be assured in answering you that we'll hear from you
> again in a day or two asking how to do your next set of functions...that's
> why i think you consider us to be your UN-paid 'hired' help.
>
> i just get sick of seeing others that don't know better, anwering your posts
> thinking they are helping you out...when it is really they who need help
> from being taken advantage of.

So what is the criteria here for a question to be appropriate or for
someone to answer a question. Do people feel taken advantage of by my
asking questions about things I don't understand? What is this
listserv for? I thought it was a place to ask questions when we get
stuck and learn from each other.

I've tried to help were I can. I helped someone having trouble
installing mysql on a Mac, something I struggled with for a long
time. It is possible to do it all on your own, but I felt it was
useful to at least share what I knew. I didn't feel taken advantage
of. In fact, I was happy I could help. It made me feel good. I
remembered how clueleess I felt when I was at the stage this person
was at. I was passing on some information that I had learned, some on
my own and some from others.

> | There is no question I an a novice. I
> | never expect to be a professional, though I would love to learn enough
> | to make it all go more easily and quickly.
>
> there is nothing quick nor easy about learning something - with few
> exceptions. an exception would be a savaunt or person who has a natural
> knack. since you are neither of these regarding php, you have stated a
> contradiction...you can EITHER want to LEARN...OR you want something QUICK
> and EZ.

I'm not sure what the contradiction is. I want to learn and am
learning. As I learn more, writing code becomes easier. This seems
to make sense.

> from what i've seen over the course of the past year or so, is that you have
> NO interest in the former - unless it is a fortunate side-effect - and are
> solely focused on the latter.

?? From my pespective, I've learned a lot.

>
> | The assistance that people on this list have given is hugely valuable
> | and appreciated.
>
> i'm sure it has been and is appreciated. you forgot to mention, FREE.

Is it supposed to cost? Isn't the information here free requested and
freely offered. Did I miss something? I help people with all kinds
of things for free. As a matter of fact I probably do more for free
than I get paid for. I emjoy doing this. It seems to me that a great
way to be in the world is to share what we can with each other.

> | I'm sorry if my own ignorance makes my questions
> | incomplete or foollish.
>
> it's not alway HOW you're asking what you need. it's more that you ARE
> asking without you having done ANY work to supply your own answer...such as
> RTFM or looking up examples on the net.

You are making some assumptions here that are not true. I spent a
good 10 hours struggling with this import issue before I asked any
questions. I searched the archive of this lists and found the two
scripts I posted. I tried to use both of them many times and didn't
get them to work. I attempted to re-format the csv file I got from
Excel with some success and some failure. After this, I posted the
query you responded to.

I would suggest that if you feel resentful about responding to a query
that you not respond. Responding when you do feel resentful and then
ranting at me that I should never have asked a question is not doing
you or me much good. If you feel taken advantage of by responding,
you can solve that problem by not responding. There is nothing about
any of questions that says you have to answer.

> good for you. so does that mean you're going to take the professional
> approach to programming and start writing your own code, reading the manual,
> and looking at examples from the web or a book? anything less, and you
> should change 'i ended up taking ...' with 'i'm still taking the novice way
> out ...' and just finish the sentence with 'and posted yet another
> help-write-my-code'. hell, we all know your game enough. why not just
> title/subject your posts with 'IT'S ME AGAIN'...that way i don't have to
> check for 'kenoli' as the op before deciding to help or not.

I really don't know where you are coming from. I do write most of my
code. I come here when I get stuck. And the code I've gotten from
this list I've had to adapt and make work in the context I am using
it. I spend much of my free time reading books on this subject.

I think you should get off of this list if you feel so resentful of
people who ask questions. I don't appreciate the huge assumptions
about where I am coming from that you are projecting on me.

Maybe I'll just look for your replies and ignore them. I'd rather
work on code than listen to your complaints about being taken
advantage of.

--Kenoli

[Back to original message]