Posted by dorayme on 06/03/07 03:32

In article <5cenb9F30be60U1@mid.individual.net>,
Bergamot <bergamot@visi.com> wrote:

> dorayme wrote:

> > I was
> > not saying its ok to leave out alt attributes out full stop.
>
> Huh? It looks to me that is exactly what you said:

Please read more closely what I said and try to operate on the
principle of a charitable interpretation. If you attend to what I
have been saying you will not be able to draw the conclusion that
I think it is ok to leave out alt text whenever one feels like
it.

> >> > You can also leave it out altogether.
>
> Leaving alt out and using blank alt are 2 very different things.
>

Of course they are 2 different things. The difference is great in
some cases, not very great in others and this is what you are
missing.

> >> > What are the bad
> >> > consequences beyond failing validation because of it?
> >>
> >> Look at said page in Lynx or any graphical browser with image loading
> >> disabled and see for yourself.
> >
> > This is what I would see if my suggestion were implemented:
>
> Your suggestion of using the same alt text on every link is a poor one,

>

It is poor because of someone wanting to look at that particular
page's links out of context? But you must reflect on whether that
would that be an intelligent thing to do given the nature of that
page. It simply would not be. If someone by accident came across
the links on their own, it would not principally be the naming of
the alt text that caused them to be miffed but rather the fact
that the buttons were an unnecessary addition to the questions
and need to be seen with the questions. I do not defend the
design. If the author had gone to the trouble of putting alt text
in that would have been really meaningful, then he would have
included the question in the button too in something like, "the
answer to the question "blah blah". And if he had done this, he
would not have bothered to so design the question and answer in
the first place. I stand by my view that it was in this
particular case in the circumstances fairly appropriate to make
the alt text all the same along the lines I suggested.

> but I was referring to leaving alt out altogether.

And leaving out alt text for some decorative and other non
content objects is something I wish to look into more closely.
Suggest a page where there are a lot of these things and I will
try to look at it with images turned off and think about the
difference between "" and no alt at all.

> > Please do not make the point again about a pure links page.
>
> Just because it is something you don't use yourself doesn't mean nobody
> else has a reason to.

No, you have this wrong. It was not because of this at all.

> If it weren't a useful feature for some percent of
> users, browser makers wouldn't bother to implement it.

It can be a useful feature. But in the context of the page in
question, the big trouble was elsewhere. My alt text suggestion
did not make things worse for everyone. On the whole it made
things better.


> Regardless, link
> text needs to be meaningful out of context. Using the same alt text on
> every link is not meaningful.
>

This is simply not true. You are failing to imagine all manner of
things.

> > I
> > have replied about that and the above is not to be confused with
> > that issue.
>
> You are the one who is confused about alt text. You should stop giving
> advice on the subject until you learn more about it.

I would have thought this would be beneath you but obviously it
is not. I was separating two issues and you took an opportunity
to insult me. Your paraphrase of my advice would be very
different to my advice. It is quite extraordinary for you to
suppose this is some sort of help desk and I really think I am
giving authoritative advice. I say things because I am thinking
about them and hope for people to discuss the ideas. Not insult
me for speaking in good faith.

--
dorayme

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