Posted by Jerry Stuckle on 01/09/08 16:08

Steve wrote:
> "Jerry Stuckle" <jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:XI6dneI2J-_vUxnanZ2dnUVZ_rCtnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
> <snip>
>
> i'm done going tit-for-tat with you. when i use the term 'hire', i'm talking
> about contracting a consultant or accepting a person as an fte. i 'hire'
> consultants all the time...you should have noted that when i used that
> phrase, i also used very specific terms describing how a contract can be
> written. further, you should note that not all consultants are with a firm
> or temp agency. personally, i've never had to use either and could charge
> more with less experience than if i had.
>

OK, I'll grant you that the term "hire" can be used for consulting.

However, you have repeatedly talked about hiring employees, also. That
is entirely different.

> when i 'hire' consultants, which most of ours are independents who don't
> want to consult as a career, i look them over as potential employees. again,
> the 'looking them over' doesn't magically strip 'consultant' from the work
> that they do and the contract they bear. people are lined up to work with my
> company. their foot in that door is to try and get work, any programming
> work, and happily sign contracts as consultants...hoping we look them over
> and say, 'would you be interested...'
>

Yes, there are a number of them out there. They are "consultants" in
name only, because they haven't found a full time job. That is not true
of the majority of consultants I know. They have spent the time to
build a business and a life. Most have multiple clients, even though
they might only be working on one particular job at a time.

And when you're looking at them as potential employees, they are not
really consulting. They are applying for an apprenticeship or temporary
employment with the hopes of getting a full time job.

> as for the contracts, i create all kinds of contracts. you've only described
> on kind. a contract with a company who provides an individual at x amount
> for x length of time. again, that is short-sighted and probably 'real world'
> only applies with the contracts with which you are familiar given your
> 'teaching' gig. as it is, you can also contract by project as well as by the
> hour, add in incentives/penalties, work with a company or an individual.
>

Nope, they are also common in programming, project management, etc.
Teaching is not the only thing I've done in the past.

There are two basic types of contracts. Hourly, where you pay the
consultant according to the number of hours worked, and project or fixed
price, where you pay the consultant for the job to be done.

Fixed price contracts work well when you have well-defined requirements
for the deliverables and a consultant with enough experience to
accurately estimate the amount of work required.

But if the deliverables are not well defined, there is no way anyone can
estimate accurately the amount of time required to do the job. In a
case like this, I will help with defining those requirements on an
hourly basis, then give a fixed price, if that's what they want. And if
they don't like the fixed price I give them, they have paid for the
requirements and are free to take them somewhere else. But few do.

And an inexperienced consultant will invariably underestimate the amount
of work required by a large margin. While this would not affect your
cost, it will mean the consultant will have to give you a lot of "free
time" to complete the project. That can be nights and weekends, or it
could delay the project completion (or both).

> how ever you look at that, the discussion is about how one gets work more
> than if they are wanting to consult or whether they want fte. either way, i
> put experience on a level playing field when i hire either a consultant or
> an employee based on what *i* need. sometimes, yes, that's a block of time
> through a company, but sometimes it's by project, sometimes it's merely to
> screen for potential employees...and especially in those cases, we usually
> could care less if they know how to program - they are a shoe-in if they
> know our industry or our company or it's processes.
>

Yes, and what you don't realize is that getting work for a consultant is
much different than getting work as an employee.

> the op has a lot to think about, so i don't think any further deliberation
> on this does anyone any good.
>
> EOT
>

That's true.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

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