Posted by Jake on 10/08/05 17:38

In message <fmin1506c6gu.27wri0d3hipj.dlg@40tude.net>, Beauregard T.
Shagnasty <a.nony.mous@example.invalid> writes
>Jake wrote:
>
>> In message <1ucbllxy0c5yq$.1m6n1dnppp8r.dlg@40tude.net>, Beauregard T.
>> Shagnasty <a.nony.mous@example.invalid> writes
>>>Jake wrote:
>>>
>>>> In message <1bs7jtot208wr$.1dmpqzozm7es8.dlg@40tude.net>, rf
>>>> <rf@invalid.com> writes
>>>>> Jake wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> [opening new window]
>>>>>
>>>>>> Ever been to a site which, with badly-tested flash and/or
>>>>>> javascript, prevents the back-button from ever working?
>>>>>
>>>>> And what does your solution do? Breaks the back button.
>>>>
>>>> You've lost me there, I'm afraid.
>>>>
>>>> As you've opened the page in a new window -- how is the back button
>>>> relevant?
>>>
>>>The new window has nothing in the history, so clicking the back button
>>>does nothing.
>>
>> Yes.
>>
>>>Ergo, it is broken.
>>
>> No. Simply not relevant in this context. If you have no history, the
>> back button has no function.
>
>You're not thinking like the average clueless surfer.

You're just saying that to be kind ... ;-)

>There are two
>things they all know: how to click on a link, and how to use the back
>button. If there is no history, of course the button "has no function"
>which is why it is a bad idea. They cannot get back to your page.
>
>Most of them don't even know that the tiny arrow flush up to the back
>button gives them the choice to go back more than one page.

After an hour-or-so on the Web, most new users will have discovered that
pages can open in a new window.

After a further 5 minutes it dawns on them that they can switch between
windows at will, and can 'cancel/kill' a window they've finished with by
clicking the little 'x'.

We're not talking rocket-science here .... ;-)

>
>>>> Anyway, as I've said -- much easier to kill a window than to reload
>>>> the browser.
>>>
>>>Aha, here's the realization. If your browser was maximized, and a page
>>>opened in a new maximized window on top of it, how would you know it
>>>*was* a new window?
>>
>> (A) visual - 'cos that's what the message tells me. What message? The
>> message on the page that says "link opens in a new window" -- or
>> equivalent.
>
>How many sites/pages do you really know that say that? C'mon, be honest.

Those sites that take accessibility seriously and realise that they need
to supplement the audio queue in screen readers.

(Even the PM's -- Tony Blair's -- site:
http://www.number10.gov.uk/output/Page4049.asp
>
>> (B) audio/visual - as above, plus an audio tone.
>
>My browser makes no noises.
>
Mine does, when I'm listening to a page.

>>>And it has a broken back button... So, what do you
>>>do? You go back to Google and pick another site. Sometime later in the
>>>day, when you are finished surfing, you close this "new" window and you
>>>find that original window still there... but long since forgotten.
>>
>> When I've finished, I kill the window. If the original is there, I kill
>> that one too. What's so difficult about that?
>
>You kill the window. If it was not a *new* window, you've just killed
>your whole surfing session. People are reluctant to do that until they
>are done for the day/session.

Can't speak for anyone else.
>
>How often do you sit and watch over the shoulder of the average surfer?
>
I know some very 'average' surfers, indeed ;-)

Clearly, you and I are not going to agree on this one (I suspect).

regards.

--
Jake (jake@gododdin.demon.co.uk -- just a 'spam trap' mail address)

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