Posted by Onideus Mad Hatter on 12/27/05 16:20

On Mon, 26 Dec 2005 16:40:29 +0000, SpaceGirl
<nothespacegirlspam@subhuman.net> wrote:

>> ...well, I suppose it depends on what you're using:
>> http://www.backwater-productions.net/_images/_Scraps/Where.png
>>
>> You never did explain. However on my own I found you can right click
>> on objects in Macromedia and convert them to symbols...quite deficient
>> compared to SwishMax's interface.

Still haven't touched on that one...are you avoiding it on purpose or
what?

>> ...what would you need any real code for? No offense but if you're
>> writing a butt load of code to create interactive video you're REALLY
>> doing something wrong. Check out the downloads section on the main
>> Backwater site...that didn't require any sort of serious code at all.

>Because you are living in client-side land. If you want to do anything
>with services, or use XML, process user input etc, you cannot do ANY of
>this without coding. But really, your statement demonstrates a real lack
>of knowledge about how Flash works beyond animation and perhaps stop();
>?? All the really creative sides are as much about good use of AS as
>design-smarts.

I thought we were talking about interactive video, now suddenly you're
talking about XML...what the fuck time zone are you in exactly?

I mean, interactive video...let's think about this...
on (rollOver) { yourcontainer.loadMovie("video_number"); }

Woah...boy that's sure some COMPLICATED code, innt? *snicker*

>> Photoshop has a horrible interface...not as bad as say AfterEffects,
>> but it's right up there.

>It's not brilliant I admit, but then there's nothing that really does
>what it does quite so well.

Uh...yeah, Paint Shop Pro. Are you even READING my posts or are you
just skimming through them?

>> Actually no and it's less intuitive. Less keyboard shortcuts is
>> generally a better thing in most cases and why do you need to click on
>> the image preview portion of the layers box in order to do it? What
>> does that have to do with SELECTION...you see, less intuitive. In
>> Paint Shop the function is tied into the SELECTION TOOL, which, you
>> know MAKES SENSE.

>You can ALSO do it from the select tool honey.

Yeah...with a keyboard command. You're like...slow...or something.
Here, let me try explaining to you the S..L..O..W way:

Photoshop - select a box area, hold down CTRL, then move your mouse
slightly and hope to fuck you don't accidentally move the selection
out of place in the process.

Paint Shop - select a box area, click once inside of it.

o_O

Where the fuck is your head, Kiddo?

>It's a choice.

Giving options where you don't need any only causes confusion and
makes the interface less user friendly and less intuitive. You don't
need 8 different ways of doing something, you only need ONE WAY, the
best way. If you're so deficient that you can't figure out what the
best way is...yeah, you probably shouldn't be designing an interface.

>When you become a PhotoShop poweruser

....a what? A "PhotoShop poweruser"?! What in the fuck is that? Some
kiddie club of retards? Do you have sekrat decoder rings?
Poweruser...give me a fuckin break.

>you run full screen with NO TOOLS visible at all. That's how everyone
>in our studio works. It's so much faster.

Kiddiekins, I bet I'm faster than every person in your studio COMBINED
and, huh, I have the tools visible.

>> WRONG!
>>
>> Here, let me continue. The scroll wheel on yer mouse...in Paint Shop
>> Pro the scroll wheel can be used to zoom in and out of the image and
>> you get precision control over it as it'll center in on the position
>> of the mouse...in Photoshop all you have is the Navigator box...which
>> requires more movement of the mouse, is less intuitive and doesn't
>> give you as much direct control.

>Have you ever use PhotoShop?

Have you?

>Scrollwheel zooms the image in PhotoShop. Duh :)

Uh, no it doesn't. Maybe on the Mac is does, but it sure as fuck
doesn't on the PC...but then what would you be using a Mac
for...*snicker*...

>> I'm not done yet. Paint Shop Pro also comes bundled with Animation
>> Shop...Photoshop, not even CS2 has anything like that.

>Photoshop comes shipped with ImageReady (since version 6, and we're now
>on version 9). It's a fully fledged animation/web tool.

Oh, Photoshop FINALLY got an anima-er...wait...wait...no, no it really
doesn't. I mean, if you want to make an uber simple 3rd rate animated
GIF okay...but I don't see any frame transitions...no frame
effects...no text transitions...no text effects...you can only export
video in Quicktime...um...I think maybe you missed the point,
Powerluser.

>> Oh here's my favorite...that gawd damn fuckin "step back" piece of
>> shit. Do you have any idea how much of a pain in the ass it is not to
>> be able to just hit Ctrl+Z for multiple undo levels? I mean,
>> practically every gawd damn fuckin proggie on the PLANET uses Ctrl+Z
>> as the universal undo shortcut and let's you undo, in most cases, as
>> much as you like. In Photoshop though...no, you get ONE level of undo
>> with Ctrl+Z and then you have to "step back" and use a three button
>> command shortcut - Ctrl+Alt+Z...now how gawd damn Jesus killing stupid
>> is that? I mean, honestly.

>That's because unlike many other editing programs PhotoShop has
>non-linear undo.

*whispers* no it doesn't *whispers*

o_O

....not by default anyway...and boy there's a REAL good reason why.

>So if I wanted to undo an effect I did 4 hours ago but
>NOT change the things I did after that, I can with a few clicks. How
>else would you do it? You cant use CTRL+Z to magically select an event
>out of 10000s of events to undo. It cant read your mind just yet :)

There are far easier ways of achieving such results with far less
effort and far less...mess. You're relying far too much on the
program to think for you and not enough on your own ability to
organize what you're doing directly. To me, most of what you're doing
and most of what you proposed says one thing...uncreative. *shrugs*

>> Oh and Paint Shop's scripting interface is like LIGHT YEARS easier and
>> more intuitive than Photoshop's.

>At some things yes. There are a few things I like about it.

>> ...why not? Why can't the interface be improved? Why do you think it
>> has to be obscure and difficult? You have a pretty backwards line of
>> thinking if you ask me. Hell, personally I'd like to see em include
>> undo and redo functions that are tied into your mouse's back and
>> forward buttons (well I suppose you could configure that yourself via
>> your mouse's setup...but it'd be nice if it was a prebuilt function).

>Because there would be a 1000 buttons on the UI.

No, no, see that's YOUR idea of an improved interface, Little Miss
I-Need-6-Different-Ways-To-Select-All-The-Active-Pixels.

You know what REALLY kills Photoshop though?

This:
http://www.backwater-productions.net/_images/_Scraps/PNG_Options.png

Paint Shop has the most powerful PNG optimization controls I've ever
seen...Photoshop has nothing even remotely like it...I wouldn't expect
Powerlusers to know anything about image encoding methodology though.

Oh hey, Spacey, for fun why don't you post the link to one of your
studios sites, for fun I'll reap the fucker and then rebuild it at
half the size...LOL...

>>> Perhaps you used older versions of PS?

>> No, I've got CS2.

>Dont believe you :) You list of things you claimed PhotoShop didn't do
>proves you cant have had more than a casual glance at PhotoShop, or
>you're just a beginner :p

I think you're confusing the Mac version with the PC edition, Spacey.

>>> PhotoShop has smart objects that can be embedded
>>> PhotoShop or Illustrator files.

>> ...those aren't selections, Honey.

>But they can contain selections.

Uh...no, they can't actually. o_O

What part of the definition of "selection" are you not grasping
exactly?

The closest you can come to saving selections in Photoshop is to save
the selection as a new image and then to save that image as a PSD
file...which coincidentally is HUGE in size and much harder to manage.

>Its useful. Imagine this; you are working on designs for a company web
>site. You integrate their pretty logo into letter heads, web sites,
>brochures etc. The company then changes their mind about their logo. Do
>you really want to have to edit ALL those documents by hand?

Yes...and if the client changes their mind about the logo...guess
whose gonna pay for it...not only the logo change but updating all the
letter heads, web sites, brochures, etc...yeah, THE CLIENT.

>> Because you don't know how to do it. The nifty split form loader I'm
>> working on:
>> http://www.backwater-productions.net/_images/_Scraps/Flash_Limitations3.png
>>
>> Total size of all the image content is only 15 Kilobytes...so even on
>> dialup it won't take the loader more than 3 seconds to load.

>I do know how to do it, but that doesn't mean I'd want to. I've done
>several shorts that are bitmap based, but to me that's not where the
>real elegance of Flash lays.

Uh huh:
http://www.backwater-productions.net/_test_platform/cbmain/

You can talk kid...but I've yet to see you post anything like the
loader I built for the prototype above.

>> ...of course my skill in image encoding methodology is nothing short
>> of God like,

>Oh really lol.

Like I said, post the link to one of your sites...I'll reap the fucker
and rebuild it at half the size...LOL...yer Powerluser program doesn't
even have proper image encoding options for PNG files fer fuck sake.

>> I would never submit any of my sites to a screw job like that. Their
>> own site looks and operates like shit and to me what their doing is no
>> better than the sort of tweenage muppet fuckery that produces crap
>> like this:
>> http://members.tripod.com/JCouchenour/award004s.jpg

>Well, that's one way to look at it, but you're aiming pretty low. My
>freelance clients range from record labels and popular bands for
>Universal to interactive sites for Yell. Home-bru sites have their
>market, but not if you're after the kind of clients that are willing to
>let you play with more cutting edge stuff (and pay for the time it takes
>to do it).

....it's sad that you need clients to "play with more cutting edge
stuff"...tsch, tsch, tsch...sounds to me like you have no love of the
art...just another "professional" with mediocre skills.

>> Standard works pretty good, but even on my dual Xeon system it starts
>> gettin jittery with the higher end filters.

>Scripting movies tends to be smoother as it's not tied into the
>timeline as much.

....seriously, get SwishMax already, you're making things WAY harder
than they need to be.

>>> Also, lots of video-alpha going on (but of course... you know all about chroma keying
>>> being a Flash expert and all :P)

>> ...what does it have to do with Flash?

>Lots. You can't do video-alp<snip>

No, no, I think you misunderstood...again. My point was that you were
trying to make it sound like chroma keying didn't even exist before
Flash...my point is that it's been around for a LOOOONG time...WAAAAAY
before Flash was even conceived of. The fact that you're only finding
a use for it NOW and just with Flash kinda says a lot about yer
skillz, Kiddo.

>>> Talking of which, we're doing some blue-screen stuff just before new
>>> years - I'll try remember to post the Flash demo here. Unless it's
>>> totally rubbish anyway (there's a fair chance of that).

>> If it is, put up yer source stuff, I'll show ya how to do it up
>> proper. `, )

>Sounds fun :) I'll try post when we're done filming. Not that we've even
>started yet! :o

You're too slow:
http://www.backwater-productions.net/_test_platform/cbmain2/

I've run into a couple problems, but I should have em sorted out
within the next 24/7:

http://forums.swishzone.com/index.php?showtopic=29875&st=15&gopid=134028

Doing it with SwishMax requires a bit more creativity than using
Macromedia Flash, but I would never give up the SwishMax UI for it.

--

Onideus Mad Hatter
mhm ¹ x ¹
http://www.backwater-productions.net
http://www.backwater-productions.net/hatter-blog


Hatter Quotes
-------------
"I'm not a professional, I'm an artist."

"The more I learn the more I'm killing my idols."

"Is it wrong to incur and then use the hate ridden, vengeful stupidity
of complete strangers in random Usenet froups to further my art?"

"Freedom is only a concept, like race it's merely a social construct
that doesn't really exist outside of your ability to convince others
of its relevancy."

"Next time slow up a lil, then maybe you won't jump the gun and start
creamin yer panties before it's time to pop the champagne proper."

"Reality is directly proportionate to how creative you are."

"People are pretty fucking high on themselves if they think that
they're just born with a soul. *snicker*...yeah, like they're just
givin em out for free."

"Quible, quible said the Hare. Quite a lot of quibling...everywhere.
So the Hare took a long stare and decided at best, to leave the rest,
to their merry little mess."

"There's a difference between 'bad' and 'so earth shatteringly
horrible it makes the angels scream in terror as they violently rip
their heads off, their blood spraying into the faces of a thousand
sweet innocent horrified children, who will forever have the terrible
images burned into their tiny little minds'."

"How sad that you're such a poor judge of style that you can't even
properly gauge the artistic worth of your own efforts."

"Those who record history are those who control history."

"Is my .sig delimiter broken? Really? You're sure? Awww,
gee...that's too bad...for YOU!" `, )

[Back to original message]