Posted by dorayme on 09/07/05 03:48

> From: Mark Parnell <webmaster@clarkecomputers.com.au>
>
> Previously in alt.html, dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> said:
>> From: Mark Parnell <webmaster@clarkecomputers.com.au>
>>
>>> Redesign the page without frames.
>>>
>> ... and lose a possibly worthwhile facility.
>
> The lack of unique URLs? The myriads of scrollbars?
>
A misunderstanding perhaps? Or a desire to see the worst? Your
remark is not appropriate to my comment (in spite of correctly
identifying the cons) but this may be my fault too. I was
referring to pros rather than the cons. And your remark about
the myriad of scrollbars is unfair. There need not be a myriad
of them at all. This is the unfairness of inappropriate
exaggeration. I forget whether the scholastics had a fancy Latin
name for this reasoning mistake? Let us call it something with
an Australian flavour - what about a "Bruce"? You have committed
the Fallacy of Bruce.


>> I think this latter
>> is fair enough comment given that we don't really know what the
>> OP is doing in detail...
>
> No we don't, so we have to assume that it is a standard, public, web
> site - in which case frames are not appropriate.
>
>> I know you hold fundamentalist views on
>> this issue... And that you would likely not so describe it...
>
> It wouldn't have been my choice of words, but I'm not going to disagree.
> :-)
>
>> It is a scandal that browsers have not well supported some of
>> the features (like i-frames)
>
> Don't even start on iframes - they're even worse than normal frames.
>
>> that would at least make me hurry
>> to change my one remaining framed site. The feature of keeping
>> the navigation visible at all times.
>
> position: fixed;
> There are workarounds for IE.
>
>> I no longer design with
>> frames but am constantly struck by the almost totally absurd
>> situation of navs scrolling out of site
>
> Why is that so absurd? That's how most sites work. If your pages are too
> long, add the menu at the bottom of the page as well.
>

Why is it absurd? You are in the middle of a long page and you
can't see any nav info and other comforting things? You panic.
You get an anxiety attack. You take pills but they take time to
act. You are nervous. You spill things on the keyboard. You
don't want to use the home button and lose your place and the
page designer does not want to put in bits and pieces of nav and
other stuff in the middle to make you feel comfortable. You want
to think where you might go or have been with reminder info
etc etc etc. This is absurd. This is weird! You don't think so?
Of course, as I said, we have become accustomed to this
craziness... OK my turn to have done a Bruce... But underneath
all this Brucing, there is a point that non fundamentalists will
see... :)

dorayme

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