Posted by Matt Warden on 05/11/05 01:42

Vicente,

On 5/10/05, Vicente Werner <vwerner@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 5/10/05, Marcus Bointon <marcus@synchromedia.co.uk> wrote:
> > From a customer point of view, client side validation is very much
> > in line with creating a trouble-free system.
>
> Don't think so, javascript is the gate to all problems, until they put
> a really stable javascript implementation, javascript is nothing but
> trouble: Take for example qforms, probably the most robust dhtml
> validation system I know of (better than formcat, formsess, etc..),
> still has a significant amount of browsers where it dosn't work as it
> should, and even on those that looks like works flawlessly there're
> some situations that ruin it.

Javascript is the gate to all problems? Javascript is nothing but trouble?

The bottom line, unfortunately, is that you are simply showing your
ignorance in the matter. You are making it obvious that you do not
know how to write Javascript that degrades well. Javascript is just a
technology. While your claims about instability in Javascript
installations are true (if not a bit exaggerated), this has absolutely
*NO* impact on being able to use Javascript in a way that degrades
well.

How? Here's a start:
(1) Start off with an application that 100% works without Javascript
(2) Use function/object detection in the code

If you follow the two rules above, it doesn't matter how little of
your Javascript gets executed.

By the way, I know that SmartyValidate/HTML_QuickForm follow #1, but I
do not know about #2.

> Call me lazy, but certainly I don't see the benefits outweighting the
> effort just to make it run, you still have to duplicate work and it's
> not worth it.

In HTML_QuickForm, the "duplicating work" is simply passing 'client'
as the last argument in a function.

> No, they just don't think it's the way to do things (why have two
> systems, with double probability of failure?, use one)

There is no increase in probability of failure. They are duplicate
systems in series.

> I know it's not impossible, but you're adding extra work.. and extra
> code that might break up: don't code more than necessary if you want
> to keep your system as trouble free as possible.

The "extra" code is necessary to create a form using best practices;
server-side validation for your data's sake, and client-side for your
users' sake.

If you don't want to use client-side validation for your users' sake,
then don't. But, most people do.

Thanks,

--
Matt Warden
Miami University
Oxford, OH, USA
http://mattwarden.com


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