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Posted by Tony Marston on 07/29/06 09:01
"Jerry Stuckle" <jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote in message
news:irOdnZ3bpP0A6FfZnZ2dnUVZ_uWdnZ2d@comcast.com...
> Tony Marston wrote:
>> "Jerry Stuckle" <jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote in message
>> news:jaCdnSDnrpPsn1fZnZ2dnUVZ_vqdnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>
>>>Tony Marston wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Ivan Marsh" <annoyed@you.now> wrote in message
>>>>news:pan.2006.07.27.15.30.31.757191@you.now...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>On Thu, 27 Jul 2006 13:13:29 +0100, Tony Marston wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>"Jerry Stuckle" <jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>news:VZqdndIgAfB2OlXZnZ2dnUVZ_vKdnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Tony Marston wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>"Jerry Stuckle" <jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>news:WYudnRl91u0MzVrZnZ2dnUVZ_vSdnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Tony Marston wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>"Jerry Stuckle" <jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>news:Kb6dnRCvKMxASlvZnZ2dnUVZ_uudnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>ImOk wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>I just read a thread about this and I thought I would just add
>>>>>>>>>>>>my
>>>>>>>>>>>>2cents why this situation exists.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>In the stone age days, keyboards did not have lowercase. So
>>>>>>>>>>>>everything was typed in uppercase. No one bitched about it. Now
>>>>>>>>>>>>with upper and lower case keyboards people bitch and curse.
>>>>>>>>>>>>Including myself. But I live with it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>The main reason why we have case sensitivity in programming
>>>>>>>>>>>>languages goes back to the start of cave man days of language
>>>>>>>>>>>>development: Compilation and interpretation performance. A
>>>>>>>>>>>>compiler
>>>>>>>>>>>>does not have to
>>>>>>>>>>>>convert symbols to upper case or lower case or whatever. Also,
>>>>>>>>>>>>only
>>>>>>>>>>>>one
>>>>>>>>>>>>way to have a symbol table in memory. This reasoning goes back
>>>>>>>>>>>>to
>>>>>>>>>>>>the days of slow CPU's and low memory. Today, one could argue
>>>>>>>>>>>>otherwise.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Same thing for many of the OSes of the world.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>So, they didn't force case sensitivity on us out of concern of
>>>>>>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>>>>>>English language (Only Smalltalk cares about this in a serious
>>>>>>>>>>>>manner).
>>>>>>>>>>>>After all look at the crappy function names in maney languages
>>>>>>>>>>>>including C and PHP.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>There are many things that we are stuck with for historical
>>>>>>>>>>>>reasons
>>>>>>>>>>>>that dont make sense today. But these days with autocompletion
>>>>>>>>>>>>it
>>>>>>>>>>>>shouldn't be much of an issue. Provided you are not using
>>>>>>>>>>>>NoTePaD.
>>>>>>>>>>>>Although I dislike VB for other reasons it does it it best. If
>>>>>>>>>>>>you
>>>>>>>>>>>>declare a variable, it will go through and fix it everywhere the
>>>>>>>>>>>>same way. No questions asked.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Ok, sorry about my rant.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>This has been hashed and rehashed ad nauseum in this group. If
>>>>>>>>>>>you
>>>>>>>>>>>want to read about it, check Google Groups.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Please let it drop. It's not going to change anything - or
>>>>>>>>>>>anyone's
>>>>>>>>>>>mind.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>This is a typical instance of a small number of small minded
>>>>>>>>>>coders
>>>>>>>>>>trying to enforce their idea of what is "pure" on everybody. The
>>>>>>>>>>whole idea sucks big time.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Agreed. You are trying to enforce your ideas on everybody.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>No I'm not. It is the other way around. All computer languages and
>>>>>>>>operating systems were orginally case-insensitive. Windows is still
>>>>>>>>case-nsensitive, as are all the Windows products. Then a few
>>>>>>>>lame-brains thought that case sensitivity would be really "kewl" and
>>>>>>>>they are now trying to enforce their pathetic ideas on everybody
>>>>>>>>else.
>>>>>
>>>>>Sorry to jump in the middle of this but... no they weren't.
>>>>>
>>>>>C, the language that Windows was written in, is and has always been
>>>>>case
>>>>>sensitive.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>The Windows OS is, and has always been, case-insensitive. So have all
>>>>the tools such as Word, Notepad, etc.
>>>>
>>>>All the operating systems and languages which I used before Personal
>>>>Computers and Windows existed, such as mainframes and mini-computers,
>>>>were all case-insensitive. Just because one particular language enforced
>>>>case-sensitivity should not mean that it now has to be enforced on every
>>>>language and every operating system.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Yea, and Tony expects the rest of the world to remain in the "computer
>>>dark ages" with antiquated tools and techniques - just because HE doesn't
>>>like them.
>>
>>
>> I have been in the IT business for over 30 years and I have seen and
>> adapted to many changes. Some changes have been for the better, but some
>> have been not so good. If there is a good reason for a change, something
>> which has logic and proven benefits, then I have no problem with it.
>>
>
> I've got you by about 9 years. 39 going on 40 here.
>
>> My point is that for the best part of those 30 years all the operating
>> systems, languages and tools that I have encountered have been
>> case-insensitive, yet some lame-brain decided to change this and now
>> wants to enforce that decision on everyone else. Can you explain to me
>> the justification for this switch? What on earth was the problem that has
>> case-sensitivity as the solution?
>>
>
> Guess you didn't get involved with Unix then, which first came out around
> 30 years go. Or C, about the same time. C++ in 1986 (20 years ago).
> Java in mid-1990's.
>
> Oh, I forgot. You were using COBOL most of those years, weren't you?
>
> As for explaining - I am not going to do it again. I've tried to explain,
> as have others. But you're too dense to understand.
>
>> All I hear on this newsgroup is along the lines of "I have only been
>> programming for 5 minutes and have only ever used one OS (unix) and one
>> language (C or C++) and that is case-sensitive, so that's the way it is".
>> Not much of an argument, is it?
>>
>
> Nope. I've been programming for 39 years. I stared out with punched
> cards and even did a little paper tape and teletype machines. The first
> mainframe I worked on was an IBM 1401 with 4,000 bytes of core memory
> (yes, the real donuts).
>
> Sure, things were not case sensitive in the 60's. But it started changing
> in the 70's. Where were you? Oh, I forgot. You were using COBOL.
In my time I have worked on mainframes, minis and micros, punch cards, paper
tape and teletypes, the languages I've used have been Assembler, COBOL, SPL,
INSIGHT, TRANSACT, POWERHOUSE (which consisted of QUIZ, QUICK and QTP),
UNIFACE, SQL and HTML. None of these were case-sensitive.
I have never worked on a unix box, or with C, C++ or Java.
> And "I don't like it so it must not be any good" isn't much of an
> argument, is it? Neither is "That's the way it has always been and I
> don't see any reason to change it". All you've given for arguments.
>
>> As far as I am concerned switching from case-insensitive to
>> case-sensitive languages creates more problems than it solves, therefore
>> it is a bad solution and should be dropped.
>>
>> That is my opinion and I'm sticking to it.
>>
>
> Fine. Go back to your COBOL where case sensitivity isn't important. The
> rest of us will enjoy the 21st century where case sensitivity can be
> helpful.
How can case-sensitivity be helpful? Name one problem where case-sensitivity
is the answer. AFAIAC case-sensitivity introduces more problems than it
solves, therefore it is a bad solution.
--
Tony Marston
http://www.tonymarston.net
http://www.radicore.org
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