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Posted by Jerry Stuckle on 07/29/06 13:39
Tony Marston wrote:
> "Jerry Stuckle" <jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:irOdnZ3bpP0A6FfZnZ2dnUVZ_uWdnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
>>Tony Marston wrote:
>>
>>>"Jerry Stuckle" <jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote in message
>>>news:jaCdnSDnrpPsn1fZnZ2dnUVZ_vqdnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Tony Marston wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"Ivan Marsh" <annoyed@you.now> wrote in message
>>>>>news:pan.2006.07.27.15.30.31.757191@you.now...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Thu, 27 Jul 2006 13:13:29 +0100, Tony Marston wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"Jerry Stuckle" <jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>news:VZqdndIgAfB2OlXZnZ2dnUVZ_vKdnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Tony Marston wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>"Jerry Stuckle" <jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>news:WYudnRl91u0MzVrZnZ2dnUVZ_vSdnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Tony Marston wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>"Jerry Stuckle" <jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>news:Kb6dnRCvKMxASlvZnZ2dnUVZ_uudnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>ImOk wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>I just read a thread about this and I thought I would just add
>>>>>>>>>>>>>my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>2cents why this situation exists.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>In the stone age days, keyboards did not have lowercase. So
>>>>>>>>>>>>>everything was typed in uppercase. No one bitched about it. Now
>>>>>>>>>>>>>with upper and lower case keyboards people bitch and curse.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Including myself. But I live with it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>The main reason why we have case sensitivity in programming
>>>>>>>>>>>>>languages goes back to the start of cave man days of language
>>>>>>>>>>>>>development: Compilation and interpretation performance. A
>>>>>>>>>>>>>compiler
>>>>>>>>>>>>>does not have to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>convert symbols to upper case or lower case or whatever. Also,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>only
>>>>>>>>>>>>>one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>way to have a symbol table in memory. This reasoning goes back
>>>>>>>>>>>>>to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>the days of slow CPU's and low memory. Today, one could argue
>>>>>>>>>>>>>otherwise.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Same thing for many of the OSes of the world.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>So, they didn't force case sensitivity on us out of concern of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>English language (Only Smalltalk cares about this in a serious
>>>>>>>>>>>>>manner).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>After all look at the crappy function names in maney languages
>>>>>>>>>>>>>including C and PHP.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>There are many things that we are stuck with for historical
>>>>>>>>>>>>>reasons
>>>>>>>>>>>>>that dont make sense today. But these days with autocompletion
>>>>>>>>>>>>>it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>shouldn't be much of an issue. Provided you are not using
>>>>>>>>>>>>>NoTePaD.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Although I dislike VB for other reasons it does it it best. If
>>>>>>>>>>>>>you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>declare a variable, it will go through and fix it everywhere the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>same way. No questions asked.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Ok, sorry about my rant.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>This has been hashed and rehashed ad nauseum in this group. If
>>>>>>>>>>>>you
>>>>>>>>>>>>want to read about it, check Google Groups.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Please let it drop. It's not going to change anything - or
>>>>>>>>>>>>anyone's
>>>>>>>>>>>>mind.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>This is a typical instance of a small number of small minded
>>>>>>>>>>>coders
>>>>>>>>>>>trying to enforce their idea of what is "pure" on everybody. The
>>>>>>>>>>>whole idea sucks big time.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Agreed. You are trying to enforce your ideas on everybody.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>No I'm not. It is the other way around. All computer languages and
>>>>>>>>>operating systems were orginally case-insensitive. Windows is still
>>>>>>>>>case-nsensitive, as are all the Windows products. Then a few
>>>>>>>>>lame-brains thought that case sensitivity would be really "kewl" and
>>>>>>>>>they are now trying to enforce their pathetic ideas on everybody
>>>>>>>>>else.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Sorry to jump in the middle of this but... no they weren't.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>C, the language that Windows was written in, is and has always been
>>>>>>case
>>>>>>sensitive.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>The Windows OS is, and has always been, case-insensitive. So have all
>>>>>the tools such as Word, Notepad, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>>All the operating systems and languages which I used before Personal
>>>>>Computers and Windows existed, such as mainframes and mini-computers,
>>>>>were all case-insensitive. Just because one particular language enforced
>>>>>case-sensitivity should not mean that it now has to be enforced on every
>>>>>language and every operating system.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Yea, and Tony expects the rest of the world to remain in the "computer
>>>>dark ages" with antiquated tools and techniques - just because HE doesn't
>>>>like them.
>>>
>>>
>>>I have been in the IT business for over 30 years and I have seen and
>>>adapted to many changes. Some changes have been for the better, but some
>>>have been not so good. If there is a good reason for a change, something
>>>which has logic and proven benefits, then I have no problem with it.
>>>
>>
>>I've got you by about 9 years. 39 going on 40 here.
>>
>>
>>>My point is that for the best part of those 30 years all the operating
>>>systems, languages and tools that I have encountered have been
>>>case-insensitive, yet some lame-brain decided to change this and now
>>>wants to enforce that decision on everyone else. Can you explain to me
>>>the justification for this switch? What on earth was the problem that has
>>>case-sensitivity as the solution?
>>>
>>
>>Guess you didn't get involved with Unix then, which first came out around
>>30 years go. Or C, about the same time. C++ in 1986 (20 years ago).
>>Java in mid-1990's.
>>
>>Oh, I forgot. You were using COBOL most of those years, weren't you?
>>
>>As for explaining - I am not going to do it again. I've tried to explain,
>>as have others. But you're too dense to understand.
>>
>>
>>>All I hear on this newsgroup is along the lines of "I have only been
>>>programming for 5 minutes and have only ever used one OS (unix) and one
>>>language (C or C++) and that is case-sensitive, so that's the way it is".
>>>Not much of an argument, is it?
>>>
>>
>>Nope. I've been programming for 39 years. I stared out with punched
>>cards and even did a little paper tape and teletype machines. The first
>>mainframe I worked on was an IBM 1401 with 4,000 bytes of core memory
>>(yes, the real donuts).
>>
>>Sure, things were not case sensitive in the 60's. But it started changing
>>in the 70's. Where were you? Oh, I forgot. You were using COBOL.
>
>
> In my time I have worked on mainframes, minis and micros, punch cards, paper
> tape and teletypes, the languages I've used have been Assembler, COBOL, SPL,
> INSIGHT, TRANSACT, POWERHOUSE (which consisted of QUIZ, QUICK and QTP),
> UNIFACE, SQL and HTML. None of these were case-sensitive.
>
> I have never worked on a unix box, or with C, C++ or Java.
>
>
>>And "I don't like it so it must not be any good" isn't much of an
>>argument, is it? Neither is "That's the way it has always been and I
>>don't see any reason to change it". All you've given for arguments.
>>
>>
>>>As far as I am concerned switching from case-insensitive to
>>>case-sensitive languages creates more problems than it solves, therefore
>>>it is a bad solution and should be dropped.
>>>
>>>That is my opinion and I'm sticking to it.
>>>
>>
>>Fine. Go back to your COBOL where case sensitivity isn't important. The
>>rest of us will enjoy the 21st century where case sensitivity can be
>>helpful.
>
>
> How can case-sensitivity be helpful? Name one problem where case-sensitivity
> is the answer. AFAIAC case-sensitivity introduces more problems than it
> solves, therefore it is a bad solution.
>
Again, you've been told time and time again. You're just too stoopid to
understand.
--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================
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