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Posted by Tony Marston on 07/30/06 08:32
"Jerry Stuckle" <jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote in message
news:usKdnVX77pqe-FbZnZ2dnUVZ_rmdnZ2d@comcast.com...
> Tony Marston wrote:
>> "Jerry Stuckle" <jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote in message
>> news:irOdnZ3bpP0A6FfZnZ2dnUVZ_uWdnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>
>>>Tony Marston wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Jerry Stuckle" <jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote in message
>>>>news:jaCdnSDnrpPsn1fZnZ2dnUVZ_vqdnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Tony Marston wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>"Ivan Marsh" <annoyed@you.now> wrote in message
>>>>>>news:pan.2006.07.27.15.30.31.757191@you.now...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On Thu, 27 Jul 2006 13:13:29 +0100, Tony Marston wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>"Jerry Stuckle" <jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>news:VZqdndIgAfB2OlXZnZ2dnUVZ_vKdnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Tony Marston wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>"Jerry Stuckle" <jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>news:WYudnRl91u0MzVrZnZ2dnUVZ_vSdnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Tony Marston wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>"Jerry Stuckle" <jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>>news:Kb6dnRCvKMxASlvZnZ2dnUVZ_uudnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>ImOk wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I just read a thread about this and I thought I would just add
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>2cents why this situation exists.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>In the stone age days, keyboards did not have lowercase. So
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>everything was typed in uppercase. No one bitched about it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Now
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>with upper and lower case keyboards people bitch and curse.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Including myself. But I live with it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>The main reason why we have case sensitivity in programming
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>languages goes back to the start of cave man days of language
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>development: Compilation and interpretation performance. A
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>compiler
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>does not have to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>convert symbols to upper case or lower case or whatever. Also,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>only
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>way to have a symbol table in memory. This reasoning goes back
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the days of slow CPU's and low memory. Today, one could argue
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>otherwise.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Same thing for many of the OSes of the world.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>So, they didn't force case sensitivity on us out of concern of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>English language (Only Smalltalk cares about this in a serious
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>manner).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>After all look at the crappy function names in maney languages
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>including C and PHP.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>There are many things that we are stuck with for historical
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>reasons
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>that dont make sense today. But these days with autocompletion
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>shouldn't be much of an issue. Provided you are not using
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>NoTePaD.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Although I dislike VB for other reasons it does it it best. If
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>declare a variable, it will go through and fix it everywhere
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>same way. No questions asked.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Ok, sorry about my rant.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>This has been hashed and rehashed ad nauseum in this group. If
>>>>>>>>>>>>>you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>want to read about it, check Google Groups.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Please let it drop. It's not going to change anything - or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>anyone's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>mind.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>This is a typical instance of a small number of small minded
>>>>>>>>>>>>coders
>>>>>>>>>>>>trying to enforce their idea of what is "pure" on everybody. The
>>>>>>>>>>>>whole idea sucks big time.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Agreed. You are trying to enforce your ideas on everybody.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>No I'm not. It is the other way around. All computer languages and
>>>>>>>>>>operating systems were orginally case-insensitive. Windows is
>>>>>>>>>>still
>>>>>>>>>>case-nsensitive, as are all the Windows products. Then a few
>>>>>>>>>>lame-brains thought that case sensitivity would be really "kewl"
>>>>>>>>>>and
>>>>>>>>>>they are now trying to enforce their pathetic ideas on everybody
>>>>>>>>>>else.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Sorry to jump in the middle of this but... no they weren't.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>C, the language that Windows was written in, is and has always been
>>>>>>>case
>>>>>>>sensitive.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The Windows OS is, and has always been, case-insensitive. So have all
>>>>>>the tools such as Word, Notepad, etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>All the operating systems and languages which I used before Personal
>>>>>>Computers and Windows existed, such as mainframes and mini-computers,
>>>>>>were all case-insensitive. Just because one particular language
>>>>>>enforced case-sensitivity should not mean that it now has to be
>>>>>>enforced on every language and every operating system.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Yea, and Tony expects the rest of the world to remain in the "computer
>>>>>dark ages" with antiquated tools and techniques - just because HE
>>>>>doesn't like them.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I have been in the IT business for over 30 years and I have seen and
>>>>adapted to many changes. Some changes have been for the better, but some
>>>>have been not so good. If there is a good reason for a change, something
>>>>which has logic and proven benefits, then I have no problem with it.
>>>>
>>>
>>>I've got you by about 9 years. 39 going on 40 here.
>>>
>>>
>>>>My point is that for the best part of those 30 years all the operating
>>>>systems, languages and tools that I have encountered have been
>>>>case-insensitive, yet some lame-brain decided to change this and now
>>>>wants to enforce that decision on everyone else. Can you explain to me
>>>>the justification for this switch? What on earth was the problem that
>>>>has case-sensitivity as the solution?
>>>>
>>>
>>>Guess you didn't get involved with Unix then, which first came out around
>>>30 years go. Or C, about the same time. C++ in 1986 (20 years ago).
>>>Java in mid-1990's.
>>>
>>>Oh, I forgot. You were using COBOL most of those years, weren't you?
>>>
>>>As for explaining - I am not going to do it again. I've tried to
>>>explain, as have others. But you're too dense to understand.
>>>
>>>
>>>>All I hear on this newsgroup is along the lines of "I have only been
>>>>programming for 5 minutes and have only ever used one OS (unix) and one
>>>>language (C or C++) and that is case-sensitive, so that's the way it
>>>>is". Not much of an argument, is it?
>>>>
>>>
>>>Nope. I've been programming for 39 years. I stared out with punched
>>>cards and even did a little paper tape and teletype machines. The first
>>>mainframe I worked on was an IBM 1401 with 4,000 bytes of core memory
>>>(yes, the real donuts).
>>>
>>>Sure, things were not case sensitive in the 60's. But it started
>>>changing in the 70's. Where were you? Oh, I forgot. You were using
>>>COBOL.
>>
>>
>> In my time I have worked on mainframes, minis and micros, punch cards,
>> paper tape and teletypes, the languages I've used have been Assembler,
>> COBOL, SPL, INSIGHT, TRANSACT, POWERHOUSE (which consisted of QUIZ, QUICK
>> and QTP), UNIFACE, SQL and HTML. None of these were case-sensitive.
>>
>> I have never worked on a unix box, or with C, C++ or Java.
>>
>>
>>>And "I don't like it so it must not be any good" isn't much of an
>>>argument, is it? Neither is "That's the way it has always been and I
>>>don't see any reason to change it". All you've given for arguments.
>>>
>>>
>>>>As far as I am concerned switching from case-insensitive to
>>>>case-sensitive languages creates more problems than it solves, therefore
>>>>it is a bad solution and should be dropped.
>>>>
>>>>That is my opinion and I'm sticking to it.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Fine. Go back to your COBOL where case sensitivity isn't important. The
>>>rest of us will enjoy the 21st century where case sensitivity can be
>>>helpful.
>>
>>
>> How can case-sensitivity be helpful? Name one problem where
>> case-sensitivity is the answer. AFAIAC case-sensitivity introduces more
>> problems than it solves, therefore it is a bad solution.
>>
>
> Again, you've been told time and time again. You're just too stoopid to
> understand.
I see. Just because I hold an opinion which is contrary to yours I am
automatically stupid.
--
Tony Marston
http://www.tonymarston.net
http://www.radicore.org
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