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Posted by Jerry Stuckle on 07/30/06 15:09
Tony Marston wrote:
> "Jerry Stuckle" <jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:usKdnVX77pqe-FbZnZ2dnUVZ_rmdnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
>>Tony Marston wrote:
>>
>>>"Jerry Stuckle" <jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote in message
>>>news:irOdnZ3bpP0A6FfZnZ2dnUVZ_uWdnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Tony Marston wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"Jerry Stuckle" <jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote in message
>>>>>news:jaCdnSDnrpPsn1fZnZ2dnUVZ_vqdnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Tony Marston wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"Ivan Marsh" <annoyed@you.now> wrote in message
>>>>>>>news:pan.2006.07.27.15.30.31.757191@you.now...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On Thu, 27 Jul 2006 13:13:29 +0100, Tony Marston wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>"Jerry Stuckle" <jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>news:VZqdndIgAfB2OlXZnZ2dnUVZ_vKdnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Tony Marston wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>"Jerry Stuckle" <jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>news:WYudnRl91u0MzVrZnZ2dnUVZ_vSdnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Tony Marston wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>"Jerry Stuckle" <jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>>>news:Kb6dnRCvKMxASlvZnZ2dnUVZ_uudnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>ImOk wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I just read a thread about this and I thought I would just add
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>2cents why this situation exists.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>In the stone age days, keyboards did not have lowercase. So
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>everything was typed in uppercase. No one bitched about it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Now
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>with upper and lower case keyboards people bitch and curse.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Including myself. But I live with it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>The main reason why we have case sensitivity in programming
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>languages goes back to the start of cave man days of language
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>development: Compilation and interpretation performance. A
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>compiler
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>does not have to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>convert symbols to upper case or lower case or whatever. Also,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>only
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>way to have a symbol table in memory. This reasoning goes back
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the days of slow CPU's and low memory. Today, one could argue
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>otherwise.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Same thing for many of the OSes of the world.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>So, they didn't force case sensitivity on us out of concern of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>English language (Only Smalltalk cares about this in a serious
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>manner).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>After all look at the crappy function names in maney languages
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>including C and PHP.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>There are many things that we are stuck with for historical
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>reasons
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>that dont make sense today. But these days with autocompletion
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>shouldn't be much of an issue. Provided you are not using
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>NoTePaD.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Although I dislike VB for other reasons it does it it best. If
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>declare a variable, it will go through and fix it everywhere
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>same way. No questions asked.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Ok, sorry about my rant.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>This has been hashed and rehashed ad nauseum in this group. If
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>want to read about it, check Google Groups.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Please let it drop. It's not going to change anything - or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>anyone's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>mind.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>This is a typical instance of a small number of small minded
>>>>>>>>>>>>>coders
>>>>>>>>>>>>>trying to enforce their idea of what is "pure" on everybody. The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>whole idea sucks big time.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Agreed. You are trying to enforce your ideas on everybody.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>No I'm not. It is the other way around. All computer languages and
>>>>>>>>>>>operating systems were orginally case-insensitive. Windows is
>>>>>>>>>>>still
>>>>>>>>>>>case-nsensitive, as are all the Windows products. Then a few
>>>>>>>>>>>lame-brains thought that case sensitivity would be really "kewl"
>>>>>>>>>>>and
>>>>>>>>>>>they are now trying to enforce their pathetic ideas on everybody
>>>>>>>>>>>else.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Sorry to jump in the middle of this but... no they weren't.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>C, the language that Windows was written in, is and has always been
>>>>>>>>case
>>>>>>>>sensitive.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The Windows OS is, and has always been, case-insensitive. So have all
>>>>>>>the tools such as Word, Notepad, etc.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>All the operating systems and languages which I used before Personal
>>>>>>>Computers and Windows existed, such as mainframes and mini-computers,
>>>>>>>were all case-insensitive. Just because one particular language
>>>>>>>enforced case-sensitivity should not mean that it now has to be
>>>>>>>enforced on every language and every operating system.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Yea, and Tony expects the rest of the world to remain in the "computer
>>>>>>dark ages" with antiquated tools and techniques - just because HE
>>>>>>doesn't like them.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>I have been in the IT business for over 30 years and I have seen and
>>>>>adapted to many changes. Some changes have been for the better, but some
>>>>>have been not so good. If there is a good reason for a change, something
>>>>>which has logic and proven benefits, then I have no problem with it.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I've got you by about 9 years. 39 going on 40 here.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>My point is that for the best part of those 30 years all the operating
>>>>>systems, languages and tools that I have encountered have been
>>>>>case-insensitive, yet some lame-brain decided to change this and now
>>>>>wants to enforce that decision on everyone else. Can you explain to me
>>>>>the justification for this switch? What on earth was the problem that
>>>>>has case-sensitivity as the solution?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Guess you didn't get involved with Unix then, which first came out around
>>>>30 years go. Or C, about the same time. C++ in 1986 (20 years ago).
>>>>Java in mid-1990's.
>>>>
>>>>Oh, I forgot. You were using COBOL most of those years, weren't you?
>>>>
>>>>As for explaining - I am not going to do it again. I've tried to
>>>>explain, as have others. But you're too dense to understand.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>All I hear on this newsgroup is along the lines of "I have only been
>>>>>programming for 5 minutes and have only ever used one OS (unix) and one
>>>>>language (C or C++) and that is case-sensitive, so that's the way it
>>>>>is". Not much of an argument, is it?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Nope. I've been programming for 39 years. I stared out with punched
>>>>cards and even did a little paper tape and teletype machines. The first
>>>>mainframe I worked on was an IBM 1401 with 4,000 bytes of core memory
>>>>(yes, the real donuts).
>>>>
>>>>Sure, things were not case sensitive in the 60's. But it started
>>>>changing in the 70's. Where were you? Oh, I forgot. You were using
>>>>COBOL.
>>>
>>>
>>>In my time I have worked on mainframes, minis and micros, punch cards,
>>>paper tape and teletypes, the languages I've used have been Assembler,
>>>COBOL, SPL, INSIGHT, TRANSACT, POWERHOUSE (which consisted of QUIZ, QUICK
>>>and QTP), UNIFACE, SQL and HTML. None of these were case-sensitive.
>>>
>>>I have never worked on a unix box, or with C, C++ or Java.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>And "I don't like it so it must not be any good" isn't much of an
>>>>argument, is it? Neither is "That's the way it has always been and I
>>>>don't see any reason to change it". All you've given for arguments.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>As far as I am concerned switching from case-insensitive to
>>>>>case-sensitive languages creates more problems than it solves, therefore
>>>>>it is a bad solution and should be dropped.
>>>>>
>>>>>That is my opinion and I'm sticking to it.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Fine. Go back to your COBOL where case sensitivity isn't important. The
>>>>rest of us will enjoy the 21st century where case sensitivity can be
>>>>helpful.
>>>
>>>
>>>How can case-sensitivity be helpful? Name one problem where
>>>case-sensitivity is the answer. AFAIAC case-sensitivity introduces more
>>>problems than it solves, therefore it is a bad solution.
>>>
>>
>>Again, you've been told time and time again. You're just too stoopid to
>>understand.
>
>
> I see. Just because I hold an opinion which is contrary to yours I am
> automatically stupid.
>
Has nothing to do whether your opinions are contrary to mine or not.
Lots of people I admire have differing opinions, and I respect them.
However, I don't respect you. You're just a troll. And a stoopid one
at that.
--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================
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