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Posted by Jerry Stuckle on 10/24/50 11:55
Tony Marston wrote:
> "Jerry Stuckle" <jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:XsKdnd0G1r_DnkzZnZ2dnUVZ_oadnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
>>Tony Marston wrote:
>>
>>>"Richard Levasseur" <richardlev@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>news:1154442024.001450.314880@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Tony Marston wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>Benefits such as a standard meta-syntax,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>What is meta-syntax, what benefits do standards bring, and who set
>>>>>>>those
>>>>>>>standards?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"What benefits do standards bring"...? I'm sorry, but is this a
>>>>>>serious question? In addition to being anti-case-sensitive, are you
>>>>>>also anti-standards?
>>>>>
>>>>>I mean "standard meta-syntax".
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Because then you don't have to worry about the personal convention of
>>>>the programmer; it is a language enforced semantic.
>>>
>>>
>>>But why should the semantics of one language be enforced on all other
>>>languages? That surely defeats the object of havng different languages.
>>>
>>
>>If that's the only reason, then yes it does. However, there are many more
>>differences between languages. And the fact virtually every modern
>>language has gone to case sensitivity means there must be some advantages
>>to it.
>
>
> But what are those advantages? How many can you identify?
>
To quote you - "Do our own dirty work. It was definitely said in a
previous post." In fact, multiple posts.
>
>>>>>>>>so we don't have to rely on intelli-sense,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>What's wrong with intellisense? If it is built into an IDE which
>>>>>>>detects
>>>>>>>what you have keyed in and automatically adjusts the case to match the
>>>>>>>previous declaration then surely by not using it you are exposing
>>>>>>>youself
>>>>>>>to
>>>>>>>the problems brought about by using a case-sensitive system. Surely
>>>>>>>this
>>>>>>>simply demonstrates that case-sensitivity is a problem and not a
>>>>>>>solution.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I didn't say there was anything wrong with it. With untyped languages,
>>>>>>though, intellisense loses some of its value. Not every IDE has
>>>>>>intellisense, either, and quality varies between them.
>>>>>
>>>>>Then it's up to the programmer to choose the right IDE. If some insist
>>>>>on
>>>>>using siple text editors without intellisense then that is their
>>>>>problem,
>>>>>not mine.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>The programmer shouldn't have to choose the "right" IDE. He should be
>>>>able to choose whatever he wants. Vim is a very capable text editor (I
>>>><3 vim), but, afaik, its intellisense is non-existant.
>>>
>>>
>>>If a programmer deliberately chooses an IDE without inellisense then he
>>>has absolutely no right to complain that the lack of intellisense is
>>>causng a problem.
>>>
>>
>>A good programmer does not have to rely in intellisense. He/she can write
>>great code without it. Intellisense is just another tool - good for some,
>>but not necessarily everyone.
>>
>>
>>>>>>>>constantly refer back to the declaration and documentation,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>If the system is not case-sensitive then he possibility of having
>>>>>>>multiple
>>>>>>>declarations of the same thing in different case would not be a
>>>>>>>problem.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>or some smart ass who LiKEs To ALTerN4t3 c4ps and
>>>>>>>>condense everything into as few lines as possible.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Any moron who deliberately uses mixed case to cause confusion deserves
>>>>>>>nothing more than a poke in the eye with a pointed stick. But if the
>>>>>>>language was not sensitive to case then it would not be a problem in
>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>first place, now would it?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Yes, it would still be a problem. That same moron can still do a
>>>>>>plethora of other things to make the code harder to read and
>>>>>>understand. If they're going to write obscufucated code, then whether
>>>>>>or not the language is case sensitive or not is irrelevent. In fact, I
>>>>>>would say it works to their advantage because now they can write it
>>>>>>differently everytime. Is it really that hard to distinguish
>>>>>>hiTh3RetWoU from hiTh3reTwoU? Not particularly, but its extra work I
>>>>>>shouldn't have to worry about and can be easily eliminated.
>>>>>
>>>>>I am not interested in how many other ways there are of writing
>>>>>obfuscated
>>>>>code. I am only concerned with the issue of case sensitivity.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>The point is that case-sensitivity helps reduce the possibly of writing
>>>>code like that.
>>>
>>>
>>>My opinion is exactly the opposite. The spelling of a word is important,
>>>the case is not.
>>>
>>
>>We know that, Tony. But look at all the programmers here who disagree
>>with you - and how few agree. That includes programmers like me with many
>>more years of experience than you have. Where does that put you?
>
>
> I may be in a minority, but I still have the right to voice my opinion.
>
Yep, and you have the right to continue to make an ass of yourself.
And I'm glad you finally agreed you're in the minority. You've tried to
place yourself in the majority of readers of this newsgroup, old time
programmers and anything else you can get your hands on.
>
>>>>>>>>After all, we should strive for code that is as self-documenting as
>>>>>>>>possible.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>What has case-sensitivity got to do with self-documenting code? I have
>>>>>>>been
>>>>>>>writing self-documenting code for 25+ years using case-insensitive
>>>>>>>languages
>>>>>>>without any problems.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Because, as one of the benefits of case-insensitivity, you say that
>>>>>>thisTHING and thisThing are the same, so one doesn't need to worry
>>>>>>about how one writes it, implying and supporting that one *should*
>>>>>>alternate how it is written, which is not conductive towards readable
>>>>>>and self documenting code.
>>>>>
>>>>>The fact that the system ignores case does not mean that it is
>>>>>obligatory to
>>>>>use mixed case as much as possible. Any programmer on my team who does
>>>>>such
>>>>>a thing will not be on my team for long.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Then whats the point of being case insensitive when you're always going
>>>>to write it in a case sensitive manner?
>>>
>>>
>>>It is perfectly acceptable to write a word in either all upper or all
>>>lower case, but somebody who deliberately switches case with alternate
>>>characters is a moron.
>>>
>>
>>Nope. Mixed case has its uses in case sensitive languages.
>
>
> Only in those languages where the only way to differentiate between
> constants, variables, functions and methods is to use different case. PHP
> does not have that problem (neither do lots of other languages), therefore
> is does not need *that* solution.
>
Your opinion - and in conflict with virtually every programmer I know -
including all of what I consider "great" programmers.
And this is the second time you've made this claim about languages. And
it's still unsubstantiated - because you can't substantiate it, like any
of the rest of your claims.
--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================
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