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Posted by Tony Marston on 08/10/06 13:21
"Jerry Stuckle" <jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote in message
news:ZemdnXPCnJ9WUkTZnZ2dnUVZ_oudnZ2d@comcast.com...
> Tony Marston wrote:
>> "Jerry Stuckle" <jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote in message
>> news:GMSdnZdwXMU9u0TZnZ2dnUVZ_rWdnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>
>>>Tony Marston wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Jerry Stuckle" <jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote in message
>>>>news:eJSdnbgtMaxMEkrZnZ2dnUVZ_qednZ2d@comcast.com...
<snip>
>>>You quote someone who no one ever heard of who posted an essay on the
>>>internet. And you claim this proves the majority of programmers agree
>>>with you.
>>
>>
>> Paragraph 21 of the article "How to write unmaintainable code" at
>> http://mindprod.com/jgloss/unmainnaming.html agrees with my point of
>> view. If you did a google search on that title you will see it referenced
>> hundreds of times, which means that many other people share the same
>> view.
>>
>
> No, it does not mean other people share the same view. It means it has
> been referenced hundreds of times. Period.
That many peole would not reference that article if they did not agree with
it.
>>
>>>Talk about arrogant prick. You define the term.
>>>
>>>And yes, there are plenty of people whose opinions differ from mine and I
>>>still respect them. You are not one of them.
>>>
>>>
>>>>>I would rather go by recognized experts - like K & R, the Bjorn
>>>>>Stroustrop, the initial designers of Java at Sun, the developers of
>>>>>PHP, the folks who developed the XML spec, and even the majority of the
>>>>>people who have responded on this thread. They have done a lot more
>>>>>for programming than your unknown essayist - or you, for that matter.
>>>>>
>>>>>And they all agree that case sensitivity is a good thing.
>>
>>
>> OK, wise guy. Show me any published resources which explicitly state that
>> the ability to create different functions with the *same spelling* but
>> *different case* is a good thing. Go on, I dare you.
>>
>
> STOOPID TONY is the only one who has ever espoused that. No one else has.
> The rest of us use case intelligently.
WRONG! My entire argument has been that such a thing is BAD, and yoiu have
been arguning AGAINST me from the very start. This implies that you think
that such a thing is GOOD.
Are you now saying the opposite? Are you now saying that you agree with my
point of view? Please make your mind up.
<anip>
>>>You need to read more. For instance, the Sun java developers recommend
>>>conventions such as "Customer" for a class name and "customer" for a
>>>variable name.
>>
>>
>> But they are not different functions with the *same spelling* but
>> *different case*
>
> No, and no one here (except stoopid Tony) has ever advocated doing it.
I have never advocated doing it. Precisely the opposite in fact, I have been
advocating AGAINST it. So you, with your constant writing of "you are wrong"
and "you are stupid" and "it is the way things are done in modern languages"
have been arguing FOR it.
>> Besides, Those are purely recommendations among programmers, not rules
>> enforced by the language. And nowhere does it say that the ability to
>> create different functions with the *same spelling* but *different case*
>> is a good thing.
>>
>
> No, they are programming standards developed over two decades and used by
> millions of programmers all over the world.
>
>>
>>
>>>IOW, they endorse standards which have now been around for a couple of
>>>decades.
>>
>>
>> They are *conventions* in those languages, not *standards* for all
>> languages.
>>
>
> The fact millions of programmers around the world use and agree on them
> makes them de facto standards.
I disagree. Different groups of programers have different standards. They
always have done and always will. Just because *some* programmers like
Hungarian Notation does not mean that *all* programmers have to use
Hungarian Notation. It is a free world (at least it is supposed to be) so
each group of programmers is free to choose its own programing conventions.
If you don't like that I suggest you crawl back to your fuhrerbunker and
await the fate of all dictators.
>> <snip>
>>
>> How many of those were exposed to different functions which had the *same
>> spelling* but *different case* ?
>>
>
> Only in stoopid Tony's world.
Wrong! I have been arguing AGAINST that state of affairs and it is YOU who
have been argunng FOR it.
>> <snip>
>>
>>>In your opinion only - and some unknown your found on the internet. The
>>>vast majority of people who have posted in this thread disagree with you.
>>
>>
>> I disagree. It is only you and Shelly who seem to think that creating
>> different functions with the *same spelling* but *different case* is a
>> good idea.
>>
>
> And you're too stoopid to go back and read what other people have said.
I have been AGAINST the idea. You have been arguing against me, which means
that you have been arguning FOR the idea.
>>>Ok, in the doc then, what is foo?
>>>
>>
>>
>> It depends how it is addressed - the constant foo, the variable foo, the
>> function foo. Nobody just uses 'foo' and expects you to determine its
>> type from its name, or the case that it was writen in.
>>
> With standards you can tell immediately just by the name. Anyone with
> half a brain (which leaves you out) can read it and know.
But what if your standards do not use case to differentiate between
variables and functions? What if the language itself does not use case to
differentiate between variables and functions?
>> <snip>
>>
>>>>PHP does not use case to tell the difference between a function and a
>>>>variable. Nor do most other languages. Therefore the *convention* of
>>>>using case in such a manner is merely the practice of one small group.
>>>>
>>>
>>>No, but programming standards do use it. And it is not the practice of
>>>"one small group". It is the practice used on every programming project
>>>in which I've been associated - either as a programmer or a project
>>>manager.
>>
>>
>> Where a language has no rules on case, where it can deal with upper case,
>> lower case and mixed case, I find that standards which dictate a
>> particular use of case are counter productive.
>>
> Only in Tony's world. Thankfully that's a very small world.
> Unfortunately, you have access to the internet so we have to put up with
> your bullshit.
What would happen if the HTTP protocol were suddenly to become case
sensitive? What would happen if email addresses were suddenly to become case
sensitive? How much aggravation would THAT cause?
>>>>>>But it is not obligatory. With PHP (and most other languages) I can
>>>>>>use whatever case I like and the language will not complain for the
>>>>>>smple reason that it does not care. There are no *language rules*
>>>>>>about how to use case, only *programer conventions*.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>No, there are not language rules. They are programming conventions
>>>>>(standards) developed to take advantage of the rules.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I disagree.They are *conventions* used by one group of programmers in
>>>>one language which are now being forced upon other groups of programmers
>>>>in other languages. Different groups have different conventions,
>>>>different languages have different conventions.
>>>>
>>>
>>>That "one group of programmers" consists of millions of programmers all
>>>over the world. Pretty big group.
There is NO rule which says that any group of programmers MUST adopt the
conventions used by another group of programmers just because that other
group is bigger. Each group is free to adopt or reject any conventions of
its own choosing.
>> It still does not get away from the issue that some conventions do not
>> apply to *all programmers* in *all languages*. I do not see why I should
>> have to accept a convention from a different language that addresses a
>> problem that does not exist in the language that I use.
>>
>
> Because millions of programmers agree it's a good thing. Only stoopid
> Tony thinks it isn't.
No. I am the one arguing AGAINST a stupid thing. You are the one arguning
FOR it.
<snip>
> I find it interesting - this thread has moved from "all case" in which you
> couldn't come up with a valid argument, to "the same function name but
> using different case".
I have never argued for "all the same case". I don't care if a mixture of
case is used. My original argument was that I am AGAINST case senstive
software which allows the same word with the same spelling but different
case to mean a different thing. You have argued IN FAVOUR of case sensitive
software precisely because it DOES allow such a thing.
> Only stoopid Tony has advocated that. No one else.
>
> Go back to your beloved COBOL, Tony. You're too stoopid to understand a
> language like PHP.
I understand it very well, thank you. And judging by the number of emails I
receive which congratulate me for what I have made available to the
community, there are plenty of people who agree with my point of view and my
pragmatic approach.
I do not expect everyone to share my point of view, or like my programming
style, but at least I don't launch vicious attacks against others just
because their approach is different to mine. I respect their right to be
different just as I expect them to respect MY right to be different.
You, on the other hand, show respect to nobody but yourself. What a sad
person.
--
Tony Marston
http://www.tonymarston.net
http://www.radicore.org
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