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Posted by jazzslider on 10/17/06 16:43
Hadn't thought of using InfoPath...of course, I'm generally uneasy
about using proprietary formats anyway, especially Microsoft's
proprietary formats. Even so, I do have it on my computer, and it
looks like it does a lot of what I'd like it to do...is there a way to
display fillable InfoPath forms in a web browser? I suppose that would
take extra plugins too.
The plugin problem for me is like this: the people who will need to
fill out these forms are not the people in my department; rather, they
are our customers/clients/etc...in other words, people whose computers
I have no control over. In addition, a large segment of my target
audience is pretty low-tech; they don't have the latest browsers, and
some may not even have their own computers. (i.e., they would be
accessing the forms on public computers)
That's one of the reasons why, if I need a client-side plugin, I need
it to be invisible...I can't expect my target audience to actively
download and install separate plugins, and I can't really rely on
JavaScript (although it'll be available in most cases). Flash would be
OK since it's so ubiquitous, but you're right that it still wouldn't be
available 100% of the time.
However...if our server could do the vast majority of the work
ordinarily done by a browser plugin and then serve up a result
consisting of XHTML + a minimal amount of JavaScript when the user
agent can handle it, that would be ideal. I think this is what Chiba
does, but if it does it on the server side then I can't use it (since I
can't install Java code on the server).
This is the kind of support I'd like to see PHP have for XForms...I
realize PHP can't actually perform the client-side page modifications,
calculations, etc. indicated by XForms actions, but a well-written PHP
implementation could easily generate the JavaScript to do that, OR
provide an alternate (understandably much slower) way of getting some
of that functionality via multiple page requests if JavaScript is not
available to the user agent.
Put more simply, I think what I need is a PHP port of Chiba or Orbeon.
:)
You said, however, that Java solutions would be client-side plugins
rather than server-side...could such a plugin be downloaded and run
passively (i.e., without the user having to deliberately find it and
download it to their computer) and invisibly? I suppose that would be
a potential security risk, but even still if it's possible it might be
my ideal option. If that's possible, how would I do it?
Thanks,
Adam
Jeff North wrote:
> On 12 Oct 2006 10:53:33 -0700, in comp.lang.php jazzslider@gmail.com
> <1160675613.215906.210320@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
> >| I have a headache.
> >|
> >| I've done a LOT of research lately into XForms, and I am thoroughly
> >| convinced that a good implementation of this technology would help me
> >| immensely in converting my department's paper forms into interactive
> >| online systems.
> >|
> >| There are a couple of problems I'm facing that I'm hoping someone here
> >| could help with. Number one: browser support for XForms is pitiful,
>
> Agree.
>
> >| and I can't expect my target audience to download plugins/extensions
>
> They just have to, until XForms functionality is build into every
> browser.
>
> >| and the like. Number two: JavaScript is my Achilles heel, and I don't
> >| have the first clue about Java, yet every workable XForms
> >| implementation I've ever found uses some combination or other of those
> >| technologies. The Java problem is compounded by the fact that I'm not
> >| in control of my own server; I don't believe I have permission to
> >| install Java code (the server people haven't answered that question
> >| yet), even if I DID know how to use it.
>
> The users browser need to have a java plugin. The server doesn't need
> this plugin.
>
> >| So...this means implementations like Chiba and Orbeon are out of the
> >| question, and although FormFaces is good JavaScript (that I don't have
> >| to look at :D), it's WAY too slow for the forms I'm trying to use it
> >| for. I've also played around with AjaxForms since it only actually
> >| requires Java on the development machine, but it's incorrectly
> >| implementing several crucial XForms specs.
>
> Each implementation I've looked at so far, is at various stages of
> development.
>
> Also I wouldn't rely on Javascript. It has it's own inbuild security
> i.e. can't write to local files.
>
> >| Does anyone here know of a good server-side XForms engine written in
> >| pure PHP (no Java)?
>
> XForms is a browser function. You can use PHP to generate the form but
> it is the browser that needs to render and act upon the xhtml code.
>
> >| It's fine by me if it generates
> >| DHTML/JavaScript/etc. so long as I don't have to write the JavaScript
> >| myself...I realize some kind of client scripting is necessary to make
> >| the coolest stuff in XForms work; I just don't want to have to write it
> >| myself.
> >|
> >| Alternatively...I've heard good things about UGO + DENG, a Flash-based
> >| XForms system...the only problem with that is that the website
> >| responsible for that project doesn't seem to be working.
>
> but the user will need to install the Flash player plugin for their
> browser :-)
>
> "and I can't expect my target audience to download plugins/extensions"
> >| I really need some help with this, even if only to be told that
> what
> >| I'm looking for doesn't exist yet.
> >|
> >| Thank you all very much for any help you can offer!
>
> If you want something that 'works' try Microsoft Infopath. It's very
> similar to XForms (but then again, users need applications installed
> on their machines to run this).
>
> http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/FX010857921033.aspx
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> jnorthau@yourpantsyahoo.com.au : Remove your pants to reply
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
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