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Posted by Helpful Harry on 02/18/07 06:04
In article <Tc-dna3Mv6eqQUrYnZ2dnUVZ_hmtnZ2d@comcast.com>, Ed Mullen
<ed@edmullen.net> wrote:
> Helpful Harry wrote:
> > In article <OeWdnYIKe7EwWUrYnZ2dnUVZ_hCdnZ2d@comcast.com>, Ed Mullen
> > <ed@edmullen.net> wrote:
> >
> >> Helpful Harry wrote:
> >>> In article <592et2tcm5m4d9ioo91v2uh1nu0ip4f35b@4ax.com>, Andy Dingley
> >>> <dingbat@codesmiths.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 12:11:10 +1300, Helpful Harry
> >>>> <helpful_harry@nom.de.plume.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> The sound of the point going right over your head. :o)
> >>>> Over _yours_ more like.
> >>>>
> >>>>> HTML tags are [...] they are a way to
> >>>>> tell a browser how to render a page on-screen.
> >>>> Not for 10 years they haven't been.
> >>> Yep, so a browser makes it up as it goes along, completely ignoring
> >>> HTML tags ... that makes sence, NOT! (Except perhaps in the case of
> >>> Internet Explorer.)
> >>>
> >>> Of course HTML tags tell the browser how to render a page. That's what
> >>> the HTML was designed to do. :o\
> >> You're almost right but, no, you don't fully understand.
> >>
> >> Look at it this way. Suppose you are setting out to create a browser
> >> from scratch. You want it to be "standards compliant." You read the
> >> standards. You find many parts that "suggest" how a particular HTML tag
> >> is rendered. However, the standard does not "mandate" how that tag is
> >> rendered. So. You could, for instance, design your browser to render
> >> <blah> as suggested by the standard: Italic-Bold-Sans-Serif. Or not.
> >> You might choose: Monospace-Big-Red. You would not be violating the
> >> standard because the standard doesn't mandate how a browser renders <blah>.
> >
> > Yes, I know different browser sometimes render tags differently, but
> > that's completely off the point.
>
> Not in context of what you said (see below).
>
> > The original person said Postscript defines a page while HTML defines a
> > "relationship between information component" - complete nonsense. Both
> > are designed to render a page, one on a printer (usually) and one on a
> > web browser.
>
> I was prompted to respond not by the OP's statements but by yours,
> vis-a-vis: "... so a browser makes it up as it goes along, completely
> ignoring HTML tags ..." My remarks were in response to that statement,
> nothing else. Browsers (at least well-designed ones) do NOT make up
> anything as they go along. They look to the standard as a guideline
> and, where possible, adhere to it. Where the standard is ambiguous
> they, rightfully so, make a decision as to what will be "good (in the
> minds of the designers)."
>
> Your contention (or implication) that the standard is absolute is not
> valid. The further statement that "... HTML tags tell the browser how to
> render a page ..." is only partially true, and that's what I pointed
> out: The HTML standard is ambiguous on many points, NOT mandating what
> a compliant browser should do, only /suggesting/ a possibly preferred
> method of rendering.
>
> Life is messy. Sex is messy. So are Web standards. But they're all
> kinda fun, eh?
As above, my reply was nothing to do with web standards, how tags are
interpreted / rendered, etc., etc. I never said "all browsers display
<strong> as bold text" - that was something you read between the lines
of my actual words and replied to something you THINK I said (I do wish
people wouldn't do that) that was never actually the point at all. :o\
I was purely giving an example to contradict the nonsense that HTML is
a "relationship between information components" and not a page
description language like Postscript. HTML is like Postscript, albeit
and extended type of format to cope with things like clicking links. In
fact, HTML and the latest version of the Postscript-deriative PDF are
almost exactly the same in terms of what their designed to do.
Yes, HTML does display differently on different browsers, and
Postscript does behave differently on different printers (especially
the so-called Poscript-compatible ones), so again they are very
similar, even though the actual commands are totally different.
I won't be wasting any more time on this silliness of trying to explain
yet again what I've already said about three times.
Helpful Harry
Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships ;o)
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