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Posted by Jerry Stuckle on 03/26/07 18:09
shimmyshack wrote:
> I think we might be getting somewhere
>
>> Please don't understand - I don't think negatively of your abilities,
>> but I do think you're a bit naive.
> as you wish, it's fine both ways
>> Calculators for building log tables are one thing. But that's not
>> nearly the same as a generic program for displaying information from a
>> SQL database.
>
> that's not actually what I am doing at all, it's more like a program
> for displaying the generic info from a database.
>
>> And neither is anywhere close to English language statements to describe programs.
>
> that's correct given the above proviso
>
>> And sure, the tools are very easy to use. So is a paint brush. So does
>> that mean everyone can be a master painter?
>
> did I mention tools? I said what we do is easy. The fact is that
> reinventing the wheel is easy because the wheel is there as
> inspiration, and because it's an everyday druge for so many, it gains
> the status of a social norm, there's no need to justify doing it, as
> everyone agrees is ok to be doing it, that won't change until the
> usual paradign shift shows everyone to be wrong. We're basically
> sheep.
>
But programming is an art, and the programming language is a tool. Even
HTML is a tool.
A painter uses the same set of brush strokes on every painting. But the
combination of the brush strokes, colors and technique make the
difference between a master and an amateur.
And don't you think the master reinvents the wheel every time? Sure he
does. And it's a drudge for him, too, I would expect.
It's not the 'social norm' - it's the way things are nowadays. We
haven't got the Star Trek computers yet. So we sit down and write code.
There have been tools for years to help things along. Code generators,
tool boxes and the like. But nothing has stopped the "drudge work", as
you call it. And I disagree that we are basically sheep. We do what we
need to do to get the job done.
>> And yes, I've seen sites which are being updated by clients. It's not
>> hard at all to determine if a professional or a wanna-be has been doing
>> the updating, even with just the HTML/javascript.
>
> Ah, now here's where you've been hoisted by your own proverbial. The
> clients don't update the /site/, they use tools we provide to update
> the data, because that's what they care about, know more about and are
> better at doing semantically than us modellers.
>
OK, I provide tools to update the data, also. But my tools completely
hide the underlying database. The user has absolutely no idea what's
going on there. Rather, the tools to update the data are in a form that
is natural for the job at hand - and NOT based on the underlying database.
PhPBBS is a great example of that (not I'm not saying it's the best BBS
- just an example of hiding the database structure). There is nothing
in any of the windows that exposes the underlying database. Everything
is done by the person in a natural way.
> perhaps we need to agree to differ; although I will generally defer to
> experience and age anyway, so yours is the wreath of laurel :)
>
As I said before - I've seen a lot of good ideas come and go. But
nothing has replaced the drudge work in the long term. Computers and
languages just haven't gotten there yet.
> prov 26,17
>> --
>> ==================
>> Remove the "x" from my email address
>> Jerry Stuckle
>> JDS Computer Training Corp.
>> jstuck...@attglobal.net
>> ==================
>
>
--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================
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