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Posted by Shelly on 09/18/07 14:28
"Steve" <no.one@example.com> wrote in message
news:DWQHi.1$W76.0@newsfe12.lga...
>
> "Shelly" <sheldonlg.news@asap-consult.com> wrote in message
> news:13evj2pqislbh1e@corp.supernews.com...
>>
>> "Steve" <no.one@example.com> wrote in message
>> news:gfPHi.28$zy3.22@newsfe02.lga...
>>>> And BTW - atheism is a religion, also. This is conveniently
>>>> "overlooked" by those espousing it in the name of "freedom". But many
>>>> atheists are trying to force their religion on the rest of the country.
>>>
>>> if you're not an atheist, don't presume to know what it is outside of a
>>> proper dictionary definition.
>>>
>>> atheism is the lack of belief in god or gods.
>>
>> Sorry, Steve, but you have to give the devil his due here. From
>> www.m-w.com
>>
>> Main Entry: athe·ism
>> Pronunciation: 'A-thE-"i-z&m
>> Function: noun
>> Etymology: Middle French athιisme, from athιe atheist, from Greek atheos
>> godless, from a- + theos god
>> 1 archaic : UNGODLINESS, WICKEDNESS
>> 2 a : a disbelief in the existence of deity b : the doctrine that there
>> is no deity
>>
>> To me those are declarative statements and not passive ones. It is a
>> "disbelief" rather than a "lack of belief". Also, when you mix
>> "doctrine" with theology you have "religion".
>
> sorry. to disbelieve something means that there is in fact something in
> evidence to believe, and that one is simply not making the same conclusion
> with that information. 'give the devil his due'...lol. present evidence of
I thought you might find that phrase amusing.
> god and then perhaps i might start 'disbelieving' it. until then, your
> case is not ready to present and there is nothing for me to disbelieve.
Again from www.m-w.com
Main Entry: dis·be·lief
Pronunciation: "dis-b&-'lEf
Function: noun
: the act of disbelieving : mental rejection of something as untrue
These says (in this context) the declarative that "there is no god", not "I
haven't been convinced into believing that there is a god". It is not
"rejecting the belief in a god". It is "rejecting the belief in a god
because the existence is untrue". It is declarative, not passive. I don't
have to present "proof" for you to reject. There is no proof.
>> The point though that Jerry is trying to make is totally wrong, however.
>> Having an atheist in there, and not allowing mixing of standard religion
>> with politics is NOT forcing the "religion" of atheism on anyone.
>> Everyone is free to believe and practice as they wish -- just not mix it
>> into politics. My earlier statement of the flourishing of religion in
>> the USA **BECAUSE** of the separation and freedom goes to that point.
>
> which i don't argue. what i do not like in the least is either of you
> presuming to know what i believe, even to the point that you feel
I understand what you believe. I totally understand it. I was almost there
once, myself. I am giving you the dictionary definition of the words
atheist and agnostic. What you call atheist, is more properly classified
encompassing both [dictionary] atheist and agnostic.
> comfortable that you can cast labels out. i'm not at all religious. i'm
> logical. further, there is no religion in the studies of sciences of old
> that i don't believe any longer because of the evidences discovered by
> modern sciences. i simply don't think about god because there is no reason
> to. i understand that religious people can believe in god but go about
> their day in the same way - not thinking of god - however, don't confuse
> their lack of commitment in their own beliefs with my lack of merit given
> to the notion of god(s) without evidence. god simply doesn't interest me.
> whatever evidence you have for him, it certainly should be infered that
> she has the same interest level in humanity.
>
> shelly, if your spouse showed you the same level of interest as god - no
> flowers from time to time, no 'hope you have a good day at work' note in
I should by her flowers every now and again, now that you mention it.
> your car's driver seat, not even so much as evidence that he'd been
> sleeping
I have been married to my wife for over 44 years.
> next to you that night (sheets crinckled and turned back) - would you
> assume that he loved you and wanted a relationship with you that warranted
> your lifetime commitment? again, what evidence is there that god exists?
> you have
I have NO evidence that God exists because there is none. I simply take it
on faith after taking my logic to the point where I cannot go any further
without invoking the supernatural. I don't presume to try to prove it,
because it cannot be done.
> faith, sure...but that is subjective. what in the natural world in which
> i'm engaged, what can i point at and say 'that is god', 'there's your
> proof'?
Nothing.
> think carefully, because all things that have been pointed at throughout
> history as 'there's your proof' have all been explained by science...even
Yes.
> down to the origin of the universe.
....err, with that last one there are theories -- and only that. I find even
the "Big Bang" uncomfortable (and I am a scientist) because I then question
"where did all that super-condensed matter come from in the first place". I
guess the best definition of "God" is "that which is beyond mankind's
ultimate understanding". No, I do not believe in an interactive God.
--
Shelly (Sheldon)
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