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Posted by Steve on 09/18/07 23:43
"Jerry Stuckle" <jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote in message
news:cuadnVL5QPJvyW3bnZ2dnUVZ_hKdnZ2d@comcast.com...
> Steve wrote:
>> "Jerry Stuckle" <jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote in message
>> news:296dnbsuHfXCnW3bnZ2dnUVZ_tPinZ2d@comcast.com...
>>> Steve wrote:
>>>> "Jerry Stuckle" <jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:nNqdnZZZKfElX3LbnZ2dnUVZ_h6vnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>>> Steve wrote:
>>>>>> "Jerry Stuckle" <jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:JoWdneE7j9ChsHLbnZ2dnUVZ_vCknZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hey, I'd much rather have a God-fearing President than an atheist.
>>>>>> jerry, i've been quiet thus far. what is wrong with an atheist or
>>>>>> atheism itself. you and i are involved in a scientific field. i have
>>>>>> to ask, what scientific evidence do you have that god exists. and,
>>>>>> with whatever 'evidence' you may provide, what kind of relationship
>>>>>> does it indicate that she may want to have with us? as there is no
>>>>>> objective evidence, i can only infer that if a god exists, she wants
>>>>>> nothing to do with us.
>>>>>>
>>>>> I don't need scientific evidence. My faith is good enough for me.
>>>>> And I feel sorry for you.
>>>> oh my!
>>>>
>>>> i can see the romanticism in the idea of the things hoped for. that is
>>>> the nature of humanity. however, to afix that to a god-figure and
>>>> create a regiment of though/belief about that concept - one that rules
>>>> your life and had such a huge and not always pleasant mark on the
>>>> history of others lives - without proof or indications that say you
>>>> seem to be correct...that is just scary!
>>>>
>>>> why is it that most rational people who go through their lives applying
>>>> critical thinking to all aspects of their lives, negate or forbid
>>>> themselves from doing the same with this one, special case - god? that
>>>> is wholly beyond me!
>>>>
>>>> you go ahead and feel sorry for me. i hope you are serving the 'right'
>>>> one, cuz all of the major religions now are quite exclusive in
>>>> membership with eternal damnation for not joining. (he pauses to
>>>> think...i wonder if jerry is going to come back with the good ol'
>>>> pascal wager at this point...then chuckles to self)
>>>>
>>> Whatever. It's my belief. However, you can be assured if there is a
>>> God, you will be in the wrong. At least I have a chance of practicing
>>> the "correct" religion.
>>
>> I KNEW IT...I CALLED IT...I TOLD YOU IT WAS COMING!!!
>>
>> PASCAL'S WAGER !!!
>>
>> and no, we have exactly the SAME changes of being right. you really
>> should research theology more before committing one of the most basic,
>> stupid, and flawed logical arguments passed throughout history. (as jerry
>> now beings to google, red in the face from embarrassment once he sees
>> what the fuck he just did).
>>
>
> Not at all. If there is no god, my religion is neither helping or hurting
> me. However, if there is a god, you have no chance of being right because
> you never entered the lottery. OTOH, I could have picked the "correct"
> religion.
>
>>
>>>>>> as for your assumption that god-fearers somehow make better decisions
>>>>>> that atheists...hardly the case. what god shall we fear? muhammad?
>>>>>> mythra? zeus? buddah? the big jc? as an american and a republican,
>>>>>> this is the most i've ever feared for democracy in america...it has
>>>>>> nothing to do with afghanistan or iraq, but everything to do with
>>>>>> domestic policy inacted after 911...and how easily a 'god-fearing'
>>>>>> people can be moved and rallied under the banner of 'god' in leu of
>>>>>> ration thought - especially thought that is critical of current
>>>>>> events in light of history.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> give me an atheist about now, please!
>>>>> I don't care what you believe in. However, when you try to impose
>>>>> your religion on me, the President or anyone else, I draw the line.
>>>> and the world shudders.
>>>>
>>>> why are christians so eager to say that but gaffaw when atheists, for
>>>> the exact same reason, want to remove religious icons from
>>>> mountainsides in california, or edicts greeting patrons of public
>>>> places, or pray in schools? why is there a double standard?
>>> You're the one setting the double standard - not allowing me to practice
>>> my religion. What harm does a cross on a mountainside do to you if you
>>> don't believe in any god? It's just a couple of pieces of wood, after
>>> all. Or if I want to pray in school, why is it your right to say I
>>> can't?
>>
>> practice all you want, but don't ask me to pay for it with the taxes used
>> to propogate it in public. go off to church and do that shit in
>> private...not in the public sector. the harm is that a cross on a
>> mountainside, if paid with public funds, is favoring and sponsoring
>> religion. do you ever read? how about the federalist papers? madison?
>> what harm? fucking get a clue!
>>
>> if you want to pray in school, go ahead. the problem is when a person
>> paid by the state says, 'now it is time to pray'. surely you're not that
>> stupid!
>
> I never said you had to pay for it with your taxes. But also notice there
> is NOTHING in the Constitution saying Congress or the States can or cannot
> spend money regarding religion - or even sponsor a religion. That has
> strictly been an "interpretation" of the courts. All it says that
> Congress and the States cannot force any person to practice any religion.
> Now that does not mean I disagree with this interpretation.
>
> But obviously you have not read the Federalist Papers. You don't have a
> clue what Madison said.
>
> As for someone offering a non-denominational prayer in school - no, I
> don't see anything wrong with it, as long as people can opt out if they
> choose. What are you afraid of - your children might actually learn
> something you don't believe in?
jerry, i am a student of history. i've done my homework. you keep leaving
out, or ignoring completely, the establishment clause of the first
ammendment.
and of course you see nothing wrong with prayer in school! you're a fucking
christian!!! the only thing i'm afraid of is that we have a religious zealot
in office and people like you are backing him...and you don't see a thing
wrong with prayer in school or governmental sponsorship of religion.
what would you be afraid of if your kid's school required them to say the
morning islamic prayer? the point is, that whatever i want my children to
believe about god is (or should be) up to me to provide, not the state.
funny how the only things a child learns in school are the essential things
that will help them get through life...religion is not part of that.
btw, wtf does a prayer sound like...the one where no religion gets offended?
"non-demoninational"...you've still got your
asshole-tunnel-vision-christian-perspective goggles on, i see. lol. did you
mean the non-denominational zen buhdists? the non-denominational hindus? the
non-denominational wiccans? i couldn't be laughing harder!
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