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Posted by Jerry Stuckle on 09/19/07 21:57
Steve wrote:
> "Jerry Stuckle" <jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:lOqdnSHxypjj0W3bnZ2dnUVZ_jGdnZ2d@comcast.com...
>> Steve wrote:
>>>>> Atheism is a religion?
>>>>> Do you actually have any clue?
>>>>>
>>>> Yes, I do. It is a disbelief in a god, as Shelly pointed out from
>>>> Websters.
>>> perhaps you need several clues then!
>>>
>>> i don't believe the toothfairy is real. am i religious now, being an
>>> atoothfairian?
>>>
>> If you could get the rest of the world to agree the tooth fairy is a
>> god,then yes. But I doubt you would be able to do that.
>
> oh, so concensus is what makes a god a god...interesting.
>
How else would you do it? After all - you said a god's presence
couldn't be proven.
>>> or, is this a special case because the word gawd is the object of
>>> disbelief?
>>>
>> The belief in a higher power. Call it God, Jehovah, Allah or any of the
>> other names the higher power is known by, yes. That is the definition of
>> religion.
>
> funny how non of that exists in atheism. declaring the obvious, there is no
> evidence of any god(s), does not follow your definition of religion, now
> does it. we, atheists, are without belief in a higher power.
>
I knew you would say that, but I couldn't come up with a better way to
put it. But your belief in an absence of a higher power is also a
belief. But we've been there before.
>>>>> Please Jerry: I read this whole thread (my bad) and came to the
>>>>> conclusion you better stick with PHP.
>>>>> You can speak with some authority on PHP, but your worldview....
>>>>> It is dangerous singleminded dribble in my humble opinion.
>>>>>
>>>> Fine, you're entitled to your opinion.
>>> hmmm...if we apply the scientific method to this, and since there is no
>>> observable evidence god does exist...yep, i'd say his is more likely
>>> right than not.
>>>
>> Faulty logic. Lack of proof that something exists is not proof it does
>> not exist.
>
> scientific method would say the case that one does exist is not valid
> without supporting evidence.
> logic goes further. since there is no evidence supporting the claim, the
> original state of affairs remains the same...therefor, there is no god.
>
No, it does not. It says something may exist until there is evidence
proving to the contrary.
People come up with unsupported theories all the time, i.e. that atoms
are indivisible. That theory went on for a while until the Curies
discovered radioactivity and found atoms could be divided and the theory
was proven false.
Note that the scientific method did not say atoms could not be divided;
it just said there was no indication they could. But then there was.
The same way, protons, electrons and neutrons were thought to be
indivisible until particle accelerators came along. Then we found they
could be divided. Again, the scientific method did not say they could
not be divided; just that there was no proof one way or the other.
> but lets stick to what we don't have...proof that gods exist. i'll ask you
> the same question that i asked shelly. this should be more pertenant to you
> since you are a christian and believe in a personal savior...
>
> what kind of relationship can you infer that a god, that does not give
> evidence for himself, would want to have with humanity? if he seems to want
> to be hidden, it kind of follows that he/she/it/they really don't want to be
> known, much less know you. further, if you have no objective evidence that
> god exists, how could you possibly jump to the conclusion that the bible is
> his word and that jesus is his son and that that perspective is the only way
> to eternal life...much less be assured that there is a heaven or hell?
>
> without evidence, we cannot confirm god(s) intentions toward us and can't
> really know anything about him. without evidence, your most fundamental
> question should not be whether or not a god(s) exist, rather it should be
> what are his intentions toward me.
>
No, we can't. Even with evidence I doubt we could understand, much less
confirm God's intentions towards us, any more than an ant could
understand our intentions towards it.
But again, my faith is what does it for me.
>>> jerry, religion makes the claim god exists. atheist just don't believe
>>> them until they provide evidence. it's the logical thing to do. for you
>>> making the claim, it would only be responsible to provide such evidence
>>> so that we needn't go back and forth.
>>>
>> That's fine. You're entitled to your beliefs, also.
>
> however, you are not entitled to say atheism is a religion just because you
> want to. you clearly have no understanding of any other perspective other
> than christianity. i suppose i shouldn't have expected any more from you
> than that.
>
And you are not entitled to say atheism is not a religion just because
you don't want to be associated with a religion.
> you stumbled right into pascal's wager even when i warned you one post
> before...i guess i should at least give you credit, given this thread's
> length, for not pulling a godwin at this point. if you're not done with this
> thread yet, i may have just predicted your next post...unless you're
> googling now to avert another blunder. ;^)
>
> EOT
>
>
Whatever.
--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================
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