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Posted by Jerry Stuckle on 09/19/07 22:02
Steve wrote:
> "Jerry Stuckle" <jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:WPOdnQclxN0-0m3bnZ2dnUVZ_jidnZ2d@comcast.com...
>> Steve wrote:
>>> "Jerry Stuckle" <jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote in message
>>> news:jtOdnUMcBZMYY3LbnZ2dnUVZ_vzinZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>> Sanders Kaufman wrote:
>>>>> Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The first amendment had to do with TOLERANCE. You worship your way
>>>>>> and I worship mine. You don't try to tell me what I can and cannot
>>>>>> do, and I don't try to tell you the same.
>>>>> The Constitution also only counted black people as 3/5 of a human.
>>>>>
>>>>> The genius of the constitution is that it's ammendable, and the Bill of
>>>>> Rights is just a bunch of ammendments - which can be repealed.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's time to let our tolerance of religious extremism go the way of our
>>>>> tolerance of slavery.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> If 9/11 taught us nothing else, it's that religious zealots are
>>>>> /everybody's/ mortal enemy.
>>>> I agree. It's time to let our tolerance of those who won't let others
>>>> practice their own religion go the way of our tolerance of slavery.
>>> but atheism is on the fence. it is a religion...but not. so therefore,
>>> let's say they have substandard morals and tell them to fuck off when
>>> they say seperation of church and state and want religious dogma removed
>>> from public places and want prayer out of schools. yeah, they don't
>>> count. tolerance only goes to 'full-blooded' 'american' religions.
>>>
>>> lol.
>> I never said atheists had substandard morals. I said I am more
>> comfortable that someone who shares my religion has similar morals.
>>
>> Nothing more, nothing less.
>>
>> And the 1st Amendment states: "Congress shall make no law respecting an
>> establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; ..."
>>
>> Additionally, the 14th Amendment states: "...No State shall make or
>> enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of
>> citizens of the United States;..."
>>
>> There is nothing in there about the "separation of Church and State". Nor
>> is there anything stating the 10 Commandments (or anything else with
>> religious connotations) cannot be displayed in a public building
>
> well, apparently you don't study history. in all your searching, you just
> skipped the obvious...the FIRST ammendment, part of the bill of rights. look
> up the "establishment clause". from jefferson's letter to a baptist
> congregation that described the clause as a "wall of seperation", we have an
> entire embrace of that notion from the supreme court, to presidents, to
> those other "supposedly christian" founding fathers. it echos not only in
> this country but in others by other terms like disestablishmentarianism to
> pluralism and the like.
>
> since you seem to avoid reading anything not related to php or the babble,
> that breaks down to "government sponsorship of any religion, bad",
> "preventing someone from practicing their own religion, bad too".
>
> school is now over. i can certainly suggest many more good historical reads.
> i already mentioned the federalist papers, but i could throw in the
> religious leaders' writing that affirmed the notions that religions need no
> help of the government to advance themselves...even to the point where the
> governmental support thereof is a detriment. but hell, we haven't even
> gotten into laissez-fair...which has nothing to do with lilith fair. and no,
> it's not just about economics.
>
Actually, I've probably read more history than you. It's been a hobby
of mine for many years, although I don't get as much time to spend on it
as I would like. It's amazing how interesting it becomes when so much
of what you remember is "ancient history" to current kids :-)
And yes, Jefferson did advocate the separation of church and state. But
he did not say the state should prevent people from practicing their
religion.
>> There is a minority of atheists out there who want to stop me and anyone
>> else with a professed belief in a god from practicing our religion.
>
> we may want to shake your skull and say, hello, is anyone in there...but
> alas, no, we couldn't care less what you believe or how you practice it.
> we're just touchy about the state-religion-sponsorship-thingy that you
> simply don't get - not the current problems, not the importance of
> seperation, nor the history that went into our well documented need and
> desire to have, in our government at least, the seperation of church and
> state.
>
And you take it far past the point where it infringes with my rights.
That's where I draw the line.
>> That right there is against both the intent and the wording of the 1st
>> Amendment.
>
> what right there? the establishment clause is the compliment to the fact
> that the government should not, likewise, infringe on your right to practice
> your religion. you just forgot what the establishment part of that
> ammendment says.
>
> ;^)
>
>
No, I didn't forget that at all.
--
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Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================
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