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Posted by Shelly on 09/20/07 17:55
"Jerry Stuckle" <jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote in message
news:FP-dnd0s3qy1PG_bnZ2dnUVZ_jSdnZ2d@comcast.com...
> And why should I have to "prove" my God exists to you - or anyone else?
> There is no fraud involved. I have stated my belief. You can choose to
> believe or not. It's up to you.
It depends upon what you said. If you said, "I believe God exists", the you
are correct that you don't have to prove anything to anyone because it is a
simple statement of faith. If you said "God exists", then the onus of proof
is upon you because that is a statement that you make as fact. In that
situation the burden of proof is not upon him to show the non-existence
(which is impossible), but upon you to support your statement.
> Not to you, there isn't. And no, I'm not even going to try to provide any
> objective evidence to you - or anyone else. I have my beliefs, and that's
> good enough for me.
Either there is objective proof or there isn't. He claims there isn't. It
is impossible to prove non-existence. All you need to do to show his
statement to be wrong is to produce a single instance of objective evidence.
Unless you can do that, (which you can't), his statement stands undisputed.
> I'm glad you finally admit it. But that is a direct contradiction to your
> previous statement: "sorry, religious people are in the *business* of
> converting."
>
> So a correct statement would be "sorry, religious people I'VE MET are in
> the *business* of converting." A big difference.
As a point of fact, I will refute Steve's statement this time. The official
policy in Judaism is to DIScourage conversions, and it has been the policy
for at least a thousand years. See, Jerry, all it takes is one instance to
show the statement to be wrong.
>> there should be no need for a situation that required an opt-out option
>> in the first place!
>>
>
> Sure. They all worship a god (or in some cases gods). It is a prayer to
> their god.
And what of the atheists? They don't worship a god. Again, only one
instance is needed to disprove your statement. (...or are you saying "to
hell with the atheists"? :-) )
>
> And the world is full of opt-out situations every day. Every choice you
> make you can opt to go another way.
For adults, that is one thing. For children it is quite another. Peer
pressure disappears to a large degree as we mature. Not so when we are
young. You are promoting cruely to children by your "opt-out choice".
>
> Let the state remain NEUTRAL in such matters. Neither promoting nor
> prohibiting.
The greatest asset in our democracy is the protection of the rights of the
minority from the tyrrany of the majority. Majority governs, but it must
not rule (do you understand the distinction?) . That is what the Bill of
Rights and the rest of it is all about.
>> you have equal access to practice your beliefs as anyone else. the
>> standard is the same. the laws are the same. if you feel the gov. should
>> favor you more, then you're more arrogant that i thought.
>>
>
> No, but YOU feel the government should favor YOU more. I just want the
> right to practice my religion. You want to refuse me that right - even
> though it is doing NO HARM to you.
Jerry, please stop with this load of crap. NOONE IS REFUSING YOU THE RIGHT
TO PRACTICE YOUR RELIGION. PERIOD. We are merely saying you can't do it on
MY property nor at MY expense. That means not on public property nor at
public expense. You can do it all you want on PRIVATE property and paid for
by you.
Why are you dense here? We have told you this how many times now? Yet, you
insist on repeating this bullshit. Are you blinded? pig-headed? or just
plain too damn stupid to understand? Over the years I had thought more of
your intelligence than that you can't grasp the meaning of the simple
statement that has been made to you over and over and over and over ad
infinitum.
I've had it. Unless you can show how we are REFUSING YOU THE RIGHT TO
PRACTICE YOUR RELIGION, and not come up with the stupidity you have
presented, I will bow out and let you live on in your ignorance.
>>> After all - what harm does it do to you that a coach offers a prayer
>>> before a big game? Are you afraid your children will start asking
>>> questions about something you don't believe in?
>>
>> i don't know. you tell me. what if he's leading your kid in a prayer to
>> satan? what would your problem be with that? what, are you afraid your
>> children will start asking questions about something you don't believe
>> in?
>>
>> don't be moronic.
>
> You're the one who wants it banned, not me. And a non-denominational
> prayer, by definition, is one towards no specific god. So he can't be
> praying to Satan - it would not be non-denominational.
>
> Don't be moronic.
Once you mention "god" in a positive sense, it is no longer
"non-denominational". That is because you have already excluded atheists.
Again, all that is needed is ONE instance to refute the statement.
How about "Let us all reflect upon what a great country we live in, wish for
the health of our family and friends, be thankful for the opportunities
presented to each one of us, and hope for a future of peace and happiness"?
Would you, Jerry, call that a prayer (no mention of God or pray or giving
thanks)? Would you, Steve? And Steve, isn't this sort of what you think
about when the rest of your church is "praying"? I know that this is what I
think of every time I hear the national anthem.
Shelly
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