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Posted by Steve on 11/08/07 14:17
"Jerry Stuckle" <jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote in message
news:192dnW2kIL6akq7anZ2dnUVZ_sjinZ2d@comcast.com...
> Steve wrote:
>> "The Natural Philosopher" <a@b.c> wrote in message
>> news:1194484441.81272.6@demeter.uk.clara.net...
>>> Darko wrote:
>>>> On Nov 7, 10:37 pm, "Steve" <no....@example.com> wrote:
>>>>> "Darko" <darko.maksimo...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>
>>>>> news:1194463439.305946.20240@z9g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Nov 7, 6:19 pm, "Steve" <no....@example.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> well !!! lo-and-behold!!! when you get your error message back THIS
>>>>>>> time,
>>>>>>> you actually get a line number OTHER THAN 1 !!! now THAT would be
>>>>>>> helpful!
>>>>>>> imagine too, that you echo this out to the browser, copy it, and
>>>>>>> paste it
>>>>>>> directly into your mysql query browser...then execute it. even
>>>>>>> before
>>>>>>> then,
>>>>>>> you might have discovered (since you can now READ IT) that there is
>>>>>>> something wrong in the data you're inserting.
>>>>>> Having yelled that out, haven't you ever noticed that mysql (and so
>>>>>> do
>>>>>> other
>>>>>> sql servers) specify precisely where the problem is - this time it
>>>>>> said:
>>>>>>> near 'from, size, format, cat, host ...
>>>>> you obviously haven't written very long or complex queries. 'near' and
>>>>> ON
>>>>> LINE x are *worlds* apart, now aren't they.
>>>>>
>>>>>> ... so it was quite clear that it had had problem with "from".
>>>>> apparently not quite as clear to the op. :)
>>>>>
>>>>>> Considering php and
>>>>>> queries code readability you are, of course, right, since a
>>>>>> programmer
>>>>>> will much more
>>>>>> easily read the code formatted in the way you have, but considering
>>>>>> error information,
>>>>> you should ammend that...'considering the error information [IN THIS
>>>>> CASE]'.
>>>>>
>>>>> either way, it should be formatted as a rule...unless you're saying
>>>>> you can
>>>>> predict your errors, in which case you wouldn't make mistakes anyway.
>>>>>
>>>>>> sql servers are pretty precise about where the problem occurred, code
>>>>>> being indented
>>>>>> or not.
>>>>> really? which ones? what is 'pretty' precise?
>>>>>
>>>>> the indenting is multipurpose. it is my experience that the top 4 sql
>>>>> servers (ms sql, oracle, mysql, teradata) are generally *obtuse* in
>>>>> their
>>>>> error messages...but they all give line numbers!
>>>>>
>>>>>>> don't let me throw you on that one...bad data is NOT the problem
>>>>>>> here.
>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>> are things called RESERVED WORDS. one of those would be the word
>>>>>>> 'FROM'...as
>>>>>>> in "select * FROM". if you had correctly formatted your sql
>>>>>>> statement,
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> line number in error would have been line 6...a much better clue.
>>>>>> As for rude yelling about making mistakes with reserved words, that
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> something that happens
>>>>>> to many people, even experienced, from time to time, so no need to
>>>>>> get
>>>>>> upset about it.
>>>>> rude? lol.
>>>>>
>>>>> you even infer rudeness about the mistake itself. no, i capitalized
>>>>> FROM so
>>>>> that it stood out. if that hurt your ears, then you won't hear me
>>>>> laughing
>>>>> right now. my intention throughout the thread here has been to make a
>>>>> point
>>>>> about formatting. did you not notice that even though i told him what
>>>>> the
>>>>> problem was, i did not tell him how to fix it? hmmmm...must not have
>>>>> been
>>>>> the goal of my post. seems you've missed that point.
>>>>>
>>>>>> I once
>>>>>> named two variables in C like "od" and "do", and couldn't find out
>>>>>> what was wrong with it until
>>>>>> I realised it was the "do" keyword.
>>>>> christ almighty! i suppose you proliferate the use of variables like
>>>>> $tmp
>>>>> too. what a goof! 'do'? for the love of god, almost *every* language
>>>>> has a
>>>>> *do* loop construct. so, when you said, 'even experienced' above, you
>>>>> were
>>>>> not associating yourself among those. :)
>>>>>
>>>>>> Finally, it is not "reserved" word in any sql, as you can indeed name
>>>>>> any field "from", as long
>>>>>> as you make the parser know it. For an example, this is totally
>>>>>> legal:
>>>>>> select name, img, descr, "from", size, format from table;
>>>>> why yes. now why would i NOT explain that to the op? must not have
>>>>> been the
>>>>> purpose of my post. what's more, i'd be encouraging BAD behavior. if
>>>>> you
>>>>> think that's just my ho, why don't you prepose that question in a db
>>>>> forum...bring your asbestos umbrella, cuz it'll rain fire from the
>>>>> first
>>>>> response to the last. dba's are kinda picky that way.
>>>>>
>>>>>> just as long as you keep the double quotes around key words.
>>>>> ahhhh...you assume too much. oracle will fart on your double quotes.
>>>>> it
>>>>> likes either single tics or single back tics (`). again, you just
>>>>> killed a
>>>>> great chance for scalability. you should be able to take your code
>>>>> base and
>>>>> plop it down in front of any db and nothing breaks. you've forced
>>>>> yourself
>>>>> to reprogram when switching from one db to another...which is the
>>>>> shits when
>>>>> you're prototyping on your local pc using mysql and pushing code to
>>>>> production where teradata is the db being used.
>>>>>
>>>>> wanna keep going, darko?
>>>> Yes, please.
>>>>
>>>> It wasn't my intention to encourage Einstein30000 to use such field
>>>> names as "from" or "select",
>>>> the idea was only that such errors happen even to experienced
>>>> programmers, not indicating whether
>>>> I consider myself one or not - it's pretty relative thing, as you
>>>> know.
>>>>
>>>> As for "od" and "do", you should first know that I am a Serb, and that
>>>> in Serbian language "od" means "from",
>>>> and "do" means "to", so "od 1 do 10" means "from 1 to 10". Thus, once
>>>> in a simple C program I needed such "from" and
>>>> "to" helper variables, and I named them "od" and "do". It would have
>>>> been much easier to avoid if I was writing in
>>>> English, which I usually do when making non-test programs, since then
>>>> it would be easier to "hear" it as the English
>>>> do. But, being switched to Serbian in my mind, I didn't see any danger
>>>> coming of it, and the
>>>> compiler was pretty vague about the error, as you know it can be, and
>>>> I hardly recognized it. This is,
>>>> if you'd really like to know.
>>>>
>>>> As for yelling, your uppercasing "FROM" explanation doesn't mention
>>>> the "your sql statement is F.U.C.K.E.D", "well !!! lo-and-behold!!!",
>>>> "a line number OTHER THAN 1 !!! now THAT would be helpful! ", "since
>>>> you can now READ IT", "bad data is NOT the problem here. there are
>>>> things called RESERVED WORDS. " statements, which I normally
>>>> considered yelling. It's just not polite to address people like that,
>>>> especially ones that came for advice and help.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Darko
>>>>
>>> I'm with darko here. It took me about 5 seconds flat to realise what was
>>> wrong.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> No need to blow it across 15 lines.
>>>
>>> Unless you are the sort person who can't count beyond ten without taking
>>> their socks off.
>>>
>>>
>>> Mysql barfs where its parser gets confused..that was at the word 'from'
>>> Simple.
>>
>> right. and no one is arguing the simple nature of identifying the problem
>> here. however, it becomes very difficult, not only to read, but to
>> maintain and debug sql statements that are not well formatted...which
>> helps more quickly identify the root cause when it is less than obvious.
>>
>> i'm not for or against anyone. i'm for a systemic approach that covers
>> all the bases and is a best practice. that's all. it has little to do
>> with the actual problem faced here with reserved words.
>
> Sorry, Steve - I don't agree with your method of "properly formatting" the
> SQL. It takes way too much space on the page. It is not "correct" by
> virtually any programmer I know.
too much space? is there a premium on space in your editor, jerry? would you
like me to post a query i have for running financial statistics here? i
would be more than willing to un-format it so just a single line in order to
save 'virtual' space on the 'virtual' page if you'd like. :)
as far as being 'correct by virtually any programmer i [you] know'...that
may be as 'virtual' as the space such a query takes up. as for what is
reported, documented, and written about code formatting - inclusive of sql -
i think you're outnumbered.
for the same reasons you should format sql, you format any other language
you write in. i'm sure you've written lots of scripts that are over several
hundred lines. why would you approach writing sql any differently than other
language? just curious jerry. if you have no other explanation than what
you've stated, you've hardly made a case...except a 'special case' which is
therefore, a logical fallacy.
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