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Posted by Onideus Mad Hatter on 12/19/07 09:13
On Sat, 08 Dec 2007 17:57:47 -0500, eclipsme <eclipsme@nowhere.com>
wrote:
>Well, if you begin by building pages that can run without java script
>from the beginning it is not an issue.
And that's a great way of limiting what you can do...but then again if
you're not all that good at web design to begin with, well, it may not
really matter much.
>I recently started learning php
>for just this reason. I wanted to pass a variable from one page to a
>form on another.
Sounds rather deficient.
>I found many java scripts
....I think you mean "javascripts", unless you're talking about Java
now (which doesn't have anything to do at all with what we're talking
about).
>that would do this, but found
>it rather simple (once I learned how) to include a snippet of php in the
>form to accept the variable. Voila! Anytime I want to do similar, I know
>how - no added investment at all. Of course, php being server side, I
>have no worries about it not working in *any* browser with *any*
>configuration.
And as fucking stupid and amateurish as you sound I'm sure it didn't
even cross your fumbling imagination that server side scripting is NOT
always such a great idea, for one it eats up YOUR server's resources,
it can be far slower in various situations and it also equates to more
wear and tear on your server's hardware. For small time applications
it may not be that big a deal, but when you start hittin in the big
leagues...yeah, you gotta get yer head out of yer ass and start
looking at the big picture (like what would happen if 500 users
simultaneously visited your site and all accessed some high level PHP
scripts).
>Granted, there are times that javascript is just what needs to be. A
>client wants a horizontal drop down menu - it can be done in FF with
>just css but not IE, so a small js program is needed. If I could find a
>script in php I would use it, but couldn't. So I have to provide other
>links on the page for those with js turned off. Not a terrible trade
>off, at least to me.
Using Flash in a case like that would likely be a far better (more
cross compatible) method.
I think of it like this...we have ramps where there are steps...we
have them for handicapped people in wheel chairs and people who can't
walk well due to old age, injury, etc. HOWEVER...those are things
that people have no direct control over. I mean if you're 83 years
old and ridin around in a Power Scooter cause you can't walk on your
own anymore...yeah, you don't have a choice. If your users don't have
any choice, if there's no way for them to install/enable javascript on
their system...then, and ONLY THEN does it actually become a necessity
to include ANY type of fall back. Cause otherwise you're just
catering to self inflicted stupidity without reason. Really, the ONLY
group online who can even claim such an actual need would be blind
persons...but then again, if your product is visual based...yeah,
blind consumers may not even make your list as far as target markets
go.
>I prefer striving for accessibility and standards. I also learn more
>that way for next time. JMHO
Which is complete and total fucking bullshit that you slurped up off
some dimwit community college level web design course. First of all,
there ARE NO "standards", there are RECOMMENDED "standards" that, huh,
no browser maker actually fully adheres to. So if no browser maker is
following these W3C RECOMMENDED "standards"...yeah, they're not
standard (unless you're an amateur level dipshit who doesn't know what
the fuck he's babbling about).
Furthermore, since no browser maker actually fully adheres to the
recommended "standards" you will actually achieve far LESS
accessibility by following them. In fact, many of the MOST cross
browser and cross operating system compatible methods won't validate
at all.
--
Onideus Mad Hatter
mhm ¹ x ¹
http://www.backwater-productions.net
http://www.backwater-productions.net/hatter-blog
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