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Posted by The Natural Philosopher on 12/21/07 13:21
Steve wrote:
> "Sanders Kaufman" <bucky@kaufman.net> wrote in message
> news:7rAaj.71221$RX.70203@newssvr11.news.prodigy.net...
>> "Erwin Moller"
>> <Since_humans_read_this_I_am_spammed_too_much@spamyourself.com> wrote in
>> message news:476a41e7$0$85783$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
>>
>>> Yes, that is the problem if you want to defens the statement that
>>> complexity can only be created by something more complex.
>>> It is an endless loop.
>> Such is the infinite nature of the universe.
>>
>> --
>> All things tend toward entropy.
>> Entropy tends toward chaos.
>> Chaos tends toward all things.
>
> chaos is a relative and ficticious term. there certainly is randomness in
> the universe, however there is NO chaos. chaos is associated with the
> break-down of laws being enforced on things. the laws of physics are
> constant. they only change based on our understanding of those laws. in
> that, there can be no chaos.
>
Semantics.
Chaos theory is a branch of mathematics. The mathematics of
discontinuous functions. Of which it seems the universe is at least
partly accurately modelled by.
> as for entropy, it tends toward the dispertion of energy...nothing more. the
> only relationship is that it occurs at a greater frequency the more ordered,
> or complex, a thing is. as for *trying* to related that to chaos, good luck!
> even in entropy, the path of dispertion is *always* the quickest
> route...meaning, my heated house will lose heat unevenly if i open a window.
> so, even entropy itself follows the order inherent in physics. again, in
> complete absense of chaos.
Chaos as he d=efines it is infinitely dis-ordered. Nothing in the laws
of nature precludes that.
>
> finally, not ALL things tend toward entropy...just energy. lest you think
> that the evolution of life forms began as infinitely complex and have
> entropied to human form now. that would put you in agreement with the
> op...that everything complex was begat by something more complex. that is
> just NOT something seen in nature.
Well it depends on how you look at it.
The Big Bang was a singularity that introduced extreme order into total
formlessness.
Ultimately its pretty much the same as the God explanation, although
the timescales are different, and the big bang is not generally supposed
to be the conscious act of a supernatural entity. Nor does it dictate
that we bow down and worship it, nor that our lives or deaths will be an
any measurably significant way affected, if we do.
As far as creation myths go, its pretty neutral really. And the huge
unanswered questions that it leaves, are at least honest ones. It does
not attempt to paper over *all* the cracks with a big grinning
monstrosity 'Full of Eastern Promise'. (I wonder who among ye recognizes
*that* particular ad line)
>
>
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