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Re: IP Spoofing

Posted by Baho Utot on 01/22/08 21:53

Jerry Stuckle wrote:

> Baho Utot wrote:
>> Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>
>>> The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>> Jonas Werres wrote:
>>>>>> Nothing at all to do with PHP.
>>>>> I think you did not understand what I wrote.
>>>>>
>>>>> The OP asked if one can spoof the IP address while requesting a
>>>>> document. Jerry says (correctly) that it would not be possible to get
>>>>> the answer. That might imply that is IS possible to make a request,
>>>>> but the answer goes nowhere. That would be enough if the purpose of
>>>>> the request was e.g. to delete a database by SQL injection. The answer
>>>>> is unimportant.
>>>>>
>>>>> What I said was that I think it is not even possible to make a request
>>>>> (regardless where the answer would go), because that would require a
>>>>> connection which cannot be established with a spoofed IP.
>>>>
>>>> A request implies an open TCP connection, which implies that a session
>>>> has been set up.
>>>>
>>> Not the way TCP/IP works. You can send up to 7 packets before an ACK is
>>> required by the sender. This is all done by the transport layer, and
>>> the web server has no idea what's going on.
>>>
>>> In that 7 packets you can get several pieces of information. It will go
>>> to the web server and be processed.
>>>
>>> The web server doesn't reply until it gets the HTTP request - which can
>>> be much later.
>>>
>>> If the web server's TCP/IP doesn't get the packet, obviously the ACK
>>> won't be returned. So after a timeout period, the sender's TCP/IP
>>> resends it (if, instead, the ACK got lost on the return, it is the web
>>> server's TCP/IP which sorts it out).
>>
>> I am missing something....What are you trying to say here?
>>
>> TCP/IP from a proper stack (non microsoft) requires
>>
>> Client --- Host
>> SYN -->
>> <-- SYN+ACK
>> ACK -->
>>
>> to open a connection.
>>
>> Now data can be exchanged.
>> Then the 7 packet rule comes into play, you must establish a "connection"
>> first.
>>
>> This link may help:
>>
>>
http://www.linuxsecurity.com/resource_files/documentation/tcpip-security.html
>>
>> [putolin]
>>
>
> Wrong, as usual, Baho. The connection is an application level concept.
> It is not required for a request to be sent to a web server.
>
> Your link is completely unrelated to what I'm discussing.
>

Me thinks you don't understand that the web port 80 _IS_ a TCP/IP
connection.
The web server will not see any datagram until TCP/IP has finished its
handshaking connection, only then will the server see the data.

Any way just what is it you were dicussing?

--
Dancin in the ruins tonight
Tayo'y Mga Pinoy

 

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