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Posted by Ramon on 10/25/05 03:10
LOL, oh please, the purpose of my post was not to proove that mine is
bigger then yours and vice verser. But it is evident from your
statements, that your views are very limited, and that all you are
trying to do is proove how great you are that you can code PHP in a text
editor. Look, congratulations, you've prooven it.
Furthermore you are not providing any real life examples to your
argument. Why is the IDE slow and limiting? You also completely ignored
my argument on run time debugging, simple walking over your inline
print_r()'s.
I've been in the industry for over 10 years, but that is not the point
and to be honest, every company/university I walked into. Was using
TextPad, but after I showed them how to use Zend non of them went back
to a simple Text editor. It improves productivity by at least 75%.
Yet, you argument states, and I quote:
"Interestingly enough, it was the most experienced programmers with
their text editors who invariably had the highest production and fewest
errors."
That statement alone in my opionion reinforces the fact that you haven't
even taken the time to try to develop something in Zend. Because if you
put 2 identical developers next to each other, one with Zend the other
with TextPad, and give them the same task. The one with Zend is going to
be sipping margaritas in the Bahamas, by the time your *old school* guys
reaches the unit testing phase.
There is a reason that people who founded / were strongly involved in
the development of PHP it self started Zend - the company. There is a
reason that they charge quete a large sum for their software. Because
they know its good, they know that people will earn more money using it
then they will pay for it.
And honestly I hate to get personal, and compare each other's e-penises.
But I'm sure your next reply will lack any indepth thought or industry
insight. It will simply say, I've worked on blah blah, and the person
with TextPad was so much quicker, because the memory load on his machine
was alot lower, due to TextPad using so few resources... blah blah.
Ahh... don't make me laught.
> Please don't tell me what I have or have not worked on. I have been on
> a couple of very large PHP projects, probably much larger than anything
> you've been on (50+ programmers, several hundred K LOC).
> No, it's NOT hard to determine what other departments have done. It's
> called DOCUMENTATION.
>
>> Thats only the start, IDEs (Zend) in this case provide me with several
>> other features:
>>
>> 1) Debugger, this is a must, being able to view objects / array /
>> variables run time, cuts down development time by at least 50%
>> (probably more). Instead of having to print_r() every second line to
>> find out whats going on.
>>
>> 2) Integratted PHPDoc, those of you who came out with guns blazing
>> saying TextPad is all I need ra.. ra.. ra.. May not have the use for
>> it, but my team and I certainly do.
>>
>> Integrated CVS, FTP, SFTP, Database browser, Table Browser (for most
>> db's including oracle 10g), Code analyser, profiler, watches,
>> breakpoints, projects, auto indentatio.
>>
>> Thats just a few of the features that come to mind, yes Zend support
>> is really terrible... I mean really bad. But as far as large scale PHP
>> development goes you can't go past it. Yes, I understand that people
>> strugle with change, but you are prooving nothing to me saying that
>> you can do it all with TextPad. I used to be in the same shoes, sure
>> you can do it with TextPad, its only going to take you alot more time.
>>
>>
>
> Sure, Zend has some advantages. Some or the people on the projects used
> it. Others didn't.
>
> I don't object to change. I tried Zend. The debugger is great. But
> the IDE was too slow and limiting.
>
> I'm not saying Zend or other IDE's are bad. They aren't. But what
> works for one person does not work for every person. I work much faster
> with a text editor than when using Zend. And most of our most
> experienced programmers found the same. The newer programmers were more
> likely to use Zend or some other IDE.
>
> Interestingly enough, it was the most experienced programmers with their
> text editors who invariably had the highest production and fewest errors.
>
>
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